What is the end game of the Israeli State/Zionism?


Golah veNekhar

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The one thing constant in life is change. One of the problems with "Palestinian Solidarity" is that it has not kept up with facts on the grounds. The so called Palestinian Authority which draws so much abuse from Israeli advocates is in fact the battered hooker of the colonial project, but the hooker of it none the less which tortures not just Hamas supporters but others suspected of wanting to meet the colonists with their own language, or even worse just wanting to meet them with non-violent resistance. The so-called Palestinian Authority will collapse because it has destroyed all legitimacy the eyes of the indigenous masses of the West Bank.

However the so-called Palestinian Authority is demonized by Zionist propagandists here. The two state solution is dead not because indigenous Palestinians are not prepared to live among Jews but because neither Israel of the Settlers would tolerate the Settlers living under solely Palestinian law. Than there is the fact that many of the Settlements are built on privately owned Palestinian land. Than there is the increasing of Settler violence.

So where do we go from here?

Ben Gurion believed that if his government treated the "Arab Israeli" brutally enough they would soon leave. That did not work and despite everything they are now over twenty per cent of the population within the Green Line. Imagine a society that totally tries to shut out of it's mind the existence of 20 per cent of the population and you might begin to grasp Zionist pathology.

So now that the two-state solution is dead what is your end game- the continuation of brutal subjugation of the indigenous population both within and outside even more the Green Line forever or a re-run of the first Nabka? To be a Zionist today means that you have to choose between those two.
 

tsarbomb

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From what I understand the goal of Zionism is a secure and prosperous future for a Jewish state where Israel is today. Most Israeli actions seem to stem from that.
 

redneck

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I would urge Israelis to look at Lebanon and maybe Cyprus as role model states. They are countries which have large minorities but are able to keep control.
In Lebanon the President is Christian, but the Prime minister and other government officials are always Sunni or Shia muslims.
 

Golah veNekhar

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From what I understand the goal of Zionism is a secure and prosperous future for a Jewish state where Israel is today. Most Israeli actions seem to stem from that.
Yet though Israel is the most prosperous state in the region it is also the most socially unjust, working Jewish families can only dream of two solid meals a days, in recent years even a decent meal a day was without of reach for thirty per cent of Jewish kids in Israel, something you would not outside of very extreme circumstances in the rest of the region.

[video=youtube;QPuQwFX2J2A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPuQwFX2J2A[/video]

It is pretty ironic, bitterly so, that anti-Zionists such as myself send money over to Israel/Palestine to feed Jews while as the likes of Ireland4Israel want to spend their money justifying the oppression of the indigenous population.
 

Niall996

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End game would be safety and prosperity I would assume.
 

Clanrickard

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The one thing constant in life is change. One of the problems with "Palestinian Solidarity" is that it has not kept up with facts on the grounds. The so called Palestinian Authority which draws so much abuse from Israeli advocates is in fact the battered hooker of the colonial project, but the hooker of it none the less which tortures not just Hamas supporters but others suspected of wanting to meet the colonists with their own language, or even worse just wanting to meet them with non-violent resistance. The so-called Palestinian Authority will collapse because it has destroyed all legitimacy the eyes of the indigenous masses of the West Bank.

However the so-called Palestinian Authority is demonized by Zionist propagandists here. The two state solution is dead not because indigenous Palestinians are not prepared to live among Jews but because neither Israel of the Settlers would tolerate the Settlers living under solely Palestinian law. Than there is the fact that many of the Settlements are built on privately owned Palestinian land. Than there is the increasing of Settler violence.

So where do we go from here?

Ben Gurion believed that if his government treated the "Arab Israeli" brutally enough they would soon leave. That did not work and despite everything they are now over twenty per cent of the population within the Green Line. Imagine a society that totally tries to shut out of it's mind the existence of 20 per cent of the population and you might begin to grasp Zionist pathology.

So now that the two-state solution is dead what is your end game- the continuation of brutal subjugation of the indigenous population both within and outside even more the Green Line forever or a re-run of the first Nabka? To be a Zionist today means that you have to choose between those two.
 

Clanrickard

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Yet though Israel is the most prosperous state in the region it is also the most socially unjust, working Jewish families can only dream of two solid meals a days, in recent years even a decent meal a day was without of reach for thirty per cent of Jewish kids in Israel, something you would not outside of very extreme circumstances in the rest of the region.

[video=youtube;QPuQwFX2J2A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPuQwFX2J2A[/video]

It is pretty ironic, bitterly so, that anti-Zionists such as myself send money over to Israel/Palestine to feed Jews while as the likes of Ireland4Israel want to spend their money justifying the oppression of the indigenous population.
Utter bullsh@t!

 

Dame_Enda

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I think a two state solution becomes increasingly unsustainable the more the settlements are in amongst Palestinian population centres like Bethlehem, which is practically surrounded by them. A one state solution is more likely but its likely it will be an Apartheid state until Israel grants one man one vote. Its akin to the Old Stormont in NI but much worse. Think Old Stormont but with the Catholics houses being bulldozed. Thats what the Palestinians are experiencing.
 

Sync

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The end result will be a 2 state solution with some of the illegal settlements being closed and some of them staying. "Something" will be done with Jerusalem.

The elements needed to get there include
  • Moderate Israeli govt
  • Stable Palestinian govt
  • Sustained period of peace where Israeli voters feel safe enough to back such a deal
  • Strong US (And Non-ME international) backing to the 2 state solution
  • Stable ME environment that A: Clearly recognises Israel's right to exist, does away with sanctions etc, fully agrees to the borders agreed as being non-negotiable and B: Willing to work financially with Palestine to build it up into a functioning economy.
We're some distance from a few of those requirements.
 

yosef shompeter

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The end result will be a 2 state solution with some of the illegal settlements being closed and some of them staying. "Something" will be done with Jerusalem.

The elements needed to get there include
  • Moderate Israeli govt
  • Stable Palestinian govt
  • Sustained period of peace where Israeli voters feel safe enough to back such a deal
  • Strong US (And Non-ME international) backing to the 2 state solution
  • Stable ME environment that A: Clearly recognises Israel's right to exist, does away with sanctions etc, fully agrees to the borders agreed as being non-negotiable and B: Willing to work financially with Palestine to build it up into a functioning economy.
We're some distance from a few of those requirements.
Not only that. There seems to be a lot of forces who don't want it to work. It would seem that Israel is like "under siege".
This has got kind of more urgent now with the development of rocket technology.
So consensus building has a long way to go yet.
 

redneck

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The idea of a state run by a religion has had it's day. There has been:
There was a Catholic state in Ireland from 1860-1996
A Protestant state for a Protestant people in N.I from 1900 - 1998
An apartheid state in South Africa from 1900 - 1996
An apartheid state in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe from 1900-1988
A Muslim state in Egypt, Jordan and Syria until the 1980's
Finally a Communist state in Russia, ended in 1996.

A country with close ties to religion does not work- like all others a Jewish state for a Jewish people will come to an end.

That particular model may work for a 50 or 60 years but it will collapse eventually. People cannot be forced to go to religious services.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The end game of the 'Israeli' state/zionism may be found on maps hanging on the wall of Israeli government ministries. It is a territory referred to as 'Greater Israel' and shows a destination border for an 'Israel' that encompasses land well beyond Damascus and Syria, for example.

In the same way there once was a Greater Germany which was going to last a thousand years, etc and so forth.
 

Speedfreak

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Most who will no doubt post on this thread are little interested in the actual reality of Jewish national aspiration. They just want to project their own ideas onto this aspiration. No doubt they may find a case or two somewhere or other that would appear to bear out their projection. But the point is that the central tenet of today's antisemitic movement holds that Zionism is the problem (it’s not the Jews, it’s Israel). So that's how these projections ought to be understood. As to the reality? Well one thing to consider is that for all the undeniable problems, there is no place, today, where the Arabs are as free as in Israel.
 

Speedfreak

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By the way, Jewishness encompasses far more than just the religious aspect. The Jewish community is defined by far more than just Judaism.
 

redneck

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By the way, Jewishness encompasses far more than just the religious aspect. The Jewish community is defined by far more than just Judaism.
there is also the Hebrew language.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Zionism is a form of exceptionalism, and despite weighty amounts of historical evidence, is the notion that the people of one religious group are 'chosen' by mr god as his people. Which makes everyone else ubermensch, obviously.

Essentially it is a form of fascism based on religious division.
 

Speedfreak

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there is also the Hebrew language.
An important one. But the list is literally endless. Cuisine, humour, racial characteristics, shared experience of persecution, social and cultural mores, familial values, and so on and so on.
 

former wesleyan

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Zionism is a form of exceptionalism, and despite weighty amounts of historical evidence, is the notion that the people of one religious group are 'chosen' by mr god as his people. Which makes everyone else ubermensch, obviously.

Essentially it is a form of fascism based on religious division.
Essentially it's an attempt to get out from under the boot heel of christians to begin with and then fascists.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Essentially it's an attempt to get out from under the boot heel of christians to begin with and then fascists.
It started out with the notion of exceptionalism based on scrolls written by a traumatised tribe who somehow tried to reassure everyone in the tribe that in fact everything was okay seeing as the tribe was 'chosen by mr god'.

It was pretty much all downhill from there. Basing an exceptionalism on the certainties of a non-existent god. What could possibly go wrong?
 
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