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Thread: France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

  1. #1
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    Default France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

    Recently whilst on holiday with a French friend in the medieval Spanish city of Toledo, a massive debate errupted between us on European culture, its history and its origins.

    The debate was provoked by the city itself, one where Christendom and the Caliphate have both left indellible marks. At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.

    Later, I stated baldly that France and England have much more in common with one another in every sense -- religiously, ethnically, historically, philosophically -- than France has with Algeria.

    "Non!" was the reply. "You are wrong. Wrong!"

    So, what are the view of the Politics.ie posters? Has France more in common with England with whom it shares the Roman legacy, Christian origins, the Norman link, the Plantagenets, the Crusades jointly fought, a linguistic relationship, medievalism, the Black Death, numerous wars, Teutonic parentage, the experience of empire, the Enlightenment and so forth, or with Algeria -- a country that in my view it shares comparitively little in common with.

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    Default Re: France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

    Quote Originally Posted by asteroid
    Recently whilst on holiday with a French friend in the medieval Spanish city of Toledo, a massive debate errupted between us on European culture, its history and its origins.

    The debate was provoked by the city of Toledo, a city where Christendom and the Caliphate have both left indellible marks. At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.

    Later, I stated baldly that France and England have much more in common with one another in every sense -- religiously, ethnically, historically, philosophically -- than France has with Algeria.

    "Non!" was the reply. "You are wrong. Wrong!"

    So, what are the view of the Politics.ie posters? Has France more in common with England with whom it shares the Roman legacy, Christian origins, the Norman link, the Plantagenets, the Crusades jointly fought, a linguistic relationship, medievalism, the Black Death, numerous wars, Teutonic parentage, the experience of empire, the Enlightenment and so forth, or with Algeria -- a country that in my view it shares comparitively little in common with.
    France est colonie d'Afrique

  3. #3
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    Default Re: France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb
    Quote Originally Posted by asteroid
    Recently whilst on holiday with a French friend in the medieval Spanish city of Toledo, a massive debate errupted between us on European culture, its history and its origins.

    The debate was provoked by the city of Toledo, a city where Christendom and the Caliphate have both left indellible marks. At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.

    Later, I stated baldly that France and England have much more in common with one another in every sense -- religiously, ethnically, historically, philosophically -- than France has with Algeria.

    "Non!" was the reply. "You are wrong. Wrong!"

    So, what are the view of the Politics.ie posters? Has France more in common with England with whom it shares the Roman legacy, Christian origins, the Norman link, the Plantagenets, the Crusades jointly fought, a linguistic relationship, medievalism, the Black Death, numerous wars, Teutonic parentage, the experience of empire, the Enlightenment and so forth, or with Algeria -- a country that in my view it shares comparitively little in common with.
    France est colonie d'Afrique
    Seems to be heading that way alright.

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    Politics.ie Member stannis's Avatar
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    La France est vraiment europeene, mes amis. Oui, il y a beuacoup d'africains et arabs etc ici a Paris, mais l'histoire de France, la langue francaise, et la geographie de ce nation indiquent une identite europeene...

    Pardon my French...

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    Indeed. The "history" of France is all that will be left of it a few decades hence. There is still a place marked St Sophia's Cathedral in Istanbul, you know, but it isn't really a cathedral at all; it's merely a piece if real estate.

    In 30 years there'll probably still be an area on the map marked "France" but it won't in any way resemble the France of 1300 - 1950: the true France of Louis XIV, Richeliue, Charles Perrault, Voltaire, Rousseau, Napolean.

    If the French today think they have more in common with Africa than with a fellow European nation, then France has been africanised. It has suffered from a severe bout of cultural amnesia from which it may never emerge.

    France is dying. How long before the rest of Europe follows suit? "Europe (nee Christendom) RIP

    From "Why Europe Chooses Extinction"[

    Demographics is destiny. Never in recorded history have prosperous and peaceful nations chosen to disappear from the face of the earth. Yet that is what the Europeans have chosen to do. Back in 1348 Europe suffered the Black Death, a combination of bubonic plague and likely a form of mad cow disease, observes American Enterprise Institute scholar Ben Wattenberg. "The plague reduced the estimated European population by about a third. In the next 50 years, Europe's population will relive - in slow motion - that plague demography, losing about a fifth of its population by 2050 and more as the decades roll on."
    Stannis, I admire your positive outlook, but you're wrong: Mantes La Jolie, an ancient French city just an hour's drive from Paris is 75% unassimilated Muslim. It is not French any longer, and it is not European.

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    Politics.ie Member stannis's Avatar
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    Then Le Pen and his party can be expected to grow stronger in the future. But only to speak from personal experience here, I do think that many French Arabs (especially the Maghrebins) are often more French than Arab in their tastes - not the same perhaps as in England, where multiculturalism reigns.

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    Politics.ie Member farnaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

    Quote Originally Posted by asteroid
    At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.
    If we're talking ancient history your friend has a point - the true southern border of european development was the sahara desert, as its centre was the mediterranean (consider the theory that our own country was heavily influenced by north african trade routes into the atlantic). France, with a Mediterranean coast, has ancient and modern links to north africa - e.g. Algerian-born Albert Camus.

    I don't agree with bringing north african countries into the EU right now but in the final concept of Europe believe they and Turkey should be positively considered.
    I stand with two thousand years of darkness and bafflement and hunger behind me... and I couldn't give a ha'penny jizz for your internet-assembled philosophy. Evil Vicar

  8. #8
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    Default Re: France: Culturally closer to England, or Algeria?

    Quote Originally Posted by farnaby
    Quote Originally Posted by asteroid
    At one point, my friend asserted that Morroco, Algeria and Turkey were 'European' and should be admitted to the European Union. I disagreed fundamentally.
    If we're talking ancient history your friend has a point - the true southern border of european development was the sahara desert, as its centre was the mediterranean (consider the theory that our own country was heavily influenced by north african trade routes into the atlantic). France, with a Mediterranean coast, has ancient and modern links to north africa - e.g. Algerian-born Albert Camus.

    I don't agree with bringing north african countries into the EU right now but in the final concept of Europe believe they and Turkey should be positively considered.
    I'm aware of all that, and I acknowledge the existence of past and present links. Do you think that the Americas and Australasia should also be admitted?

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    Politics.ie Member merle haggard's Avatar
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    France encouraged millions of North Africans at the point of a gun to regard France as their mother country , to regard Paris as the centre of the universe and to speak its language . In the 1940s and 50s they massacred tens of 1000s of Algerians who disagreed . I cant believe anyones complaining that so many of them seem to have now agreed and took their advice .

  10. #10

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    Having worked for 6 months in Brittany, I can say with confidence that the Bretons (at least) are far more culturally and spiritually in tune with England than they are with Algeria.
    Quot capita, tot sententia

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