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Thread: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bombs

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    Politics.ie Member Abaddon's Avatar
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    Default Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bombs

    (MOD - couldn't find a previous thread to do with Dublin Monaghan Bombings. If one is already there could you move this?)

    The Daily Ireland has an interesting comment on line today.

    http://www.dailyireland.com/home.tvt...id=22688&psv=1

    The Northern Ireland Office memo, disclosed last week, confirmed not only that the British government knew the identities of the killers within four months of the attack but that the then secretary of state, Merlyn Rees, actually told Irish representatives at a meeting between the two governments that they had evidence that men they had recently interned were responsible for the bombings. These secret government papers, marked confidential, relate to a specific meeting between British and Irish government officials in September 1974. The then British prime minister, Harold Wilson, and secretary of state Merlyn Rees were both present at the meeting as well as two Irish ministers Dr Garret FitzGerald and Jim Tully. This is believed to be the first official recognition that the British know the identities of the UVF gang. The memo reads: “The Secretary of State said he was able to inform the Irish ministers, in confidence, that internment orders he had signed during the Ulster Workers’ Council Strike included the persons he believed to be responsible for the Dublin bombings.”
    Did Garret FitzGerald feel that because the persons belived to be behind the bombings had been interned that it was case closed?

    The refusal of former taoiseach Liam Cosgrave to co-operate with enquiries can no longer be tolerated.
    Why would Liam Cosgrave not co-operate with an enquiry?

    I find it hard to believe that any Irishman would assist in the covering up of this attack but considering their fear of upsurge in republican support, at the time, did Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O'Brien and Cooney deliberately hinder and block a full investigation into these bombings for their own political gain?
    IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT, YOU'VE COME TO THE RIGHT SITE = P.ie - Brings out the worst in people!

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    Politics.ie Member White Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bom

    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon

    I find it hard to believe that any Irishman would assist in the covering up of this attack but considering their fear of upsurge in republican support, at the time, did Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O'Brien and Cooney deliberately hinder and block a full investigation into these bombings for their own political gain?
    Or could it be that sufficient evidence did not exist to bring these bombers to justice?

    Don't forget that many people were killed in the Birmingham pub bombings and the perpetrators are still free.

    You are very quick to attribute bad motives to the distinguished persons mentioned above.

    Does anything in FitzGerald's career show him to be capable of this level of deviousness. According to reviews of his career by FFers, he was a wooly headed, well intentioned, but hopelessly organised buffon.

    Just the type to cover up major bombings!

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    Politics.ie Member farnaby's Avatar
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    This meeting is already referred to in the Interim Report on the Report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings(December 2003), with the following conclusion:

    Notwithstanding the information supplied in the course of these meetings, there appears to have been no follow through by any of those who became aware of it. Nothing was apparently raised at the meeting. Names were not sought, nor the evidence which justified the internment, nor the allegation that they had been responsible for the Dublin bombing.

    Following the meetings, there is no evidence that the information was passed, either to the Minister for Justice or any of his officials, or indeed to the Garda Commissioner or any other Garda officer. Certainly, Patrick Cooney, the then Minister for Justice was never made aware of it, nor is there any record of such information being passed to An Garda Síochána.

    This absence of apparent interest in those interned, and in whatever evidence there was which indicated that some of them were involved in the Dublin bombings, strongly suggests that the Irish Government made no efforts to assist the investigation into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings at a political level. It is also surprising that they did not convey this information to An Garda Síochána. Gardaí did receive similar (though not as extensive) information from the RUC.
    Sounds like a lot more going on than 'insufficient evidence'.
    I stand with two thousand years of darkness and bafflement and hunger behind me... and I couldn't give a ha'penny jizz for your internet-assembled philosophy. Evil Vicar

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    Politics.ie Member Kerrygold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bom

    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse
    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon

    I find it hard to believe that any Irishman would assist in the covering up of this attack but considering their fear of upsurge in republican support, at the time, did Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O'Brien and Cooney deliberately hinder and block a full investigation into these bombings for their own political gain?
    Or could it be that sufficient evidence did not exist to bring these bombers to justice?

    Don't forget that many people were killed in the Birmingham pub bombings and the perpetrators are still free.

    Actually, the Balcombe Street 4 admitted responsibility for this attack and they were in prison between 1975 and 1998. Along with 6 innocent Irish people.

    Your point is irrelevant however.

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    Politics.ie Member White Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bom

    Quote Originally Posted by "Kerrygold

    Your point is irrelevant however.
    On the contrary, it shows that forensic science was not sufficiently developed to ensure safe prosecution.

    I don't know why the bombers could not be brought to justice but I cannot see FitzGerald as this Machiavellian figure covering up the bombing.

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    Politics.ie Member Kerrygold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bom

    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse
    Quote Originally Posted by "Kerrygold

    Your point is irrelevant however.
    On the contrary, it shows that forensic science was not sufficiently developed to ensure safe prosecution.


    'safe prosecution'! Are you completely insane. They knew they had the wrong people, but they framed them anyway.

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    Politics.ie Member White Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bom

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrygold
    safe prosecution'! Are you completely insane. They knew they had the wrong people, but they framed them anyway.
    As I recall the police had too much confidence in the forensic evidence. It convinced them they had the right guys. To ensure that they jury agreed they fabricated other evidence and with-held other evidence.

    The appeal court decided that the verdict was unsafe.

    One wonders what the verdict would have been had the police not fabricated evidence. Would there have been enough to convict?

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    Politics.ie Member Abaddon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrygold

    Your point is irrelevant however.
    On the contrary, it shows that forensic science was not sufficiently developed to ensure safe prosecution.

    I don't know why the bombers could not be brought to justice but I cannot see FitzGerald as this Machiavellian figure covering up the bombing.
    That is assuming that forensic science is required for a prosecution in this case. I'm also sure that it has advanced enough since these bombings to be of some help.

    As for your disregard for "FitzGerald as this Machiavellian figure" is this not a bit hastey considering that this man progressed through the ranks of his party to become leader and Taoiseach?
    IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT, YOU'VE COME TO THE RIGHT SITE = P.ie - Brings out the worst in people!

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    Politics.ie Member White Horse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abaddon
    As for your disregard for "FitzGerald as this Machiavellian figure" is this not a bit hastey considering that this man progressed through the ranks of his party to become leader and Taoiseach?
    Ask anyone, especially non-FGers about the concept of FitzGerald as a sinister Machiavellian figure and they'll collapse laughing!

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    Politics.ie Member rockofcashel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cosgrave, Fitzgerald, O’Brien and Cooney + Dub. Mon. bom

    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrygold
    safe prosecution'! Are you completely insane. They knew they had the wrong people, but they framed them anyway.
    As I recall the police had too much confidence in the forensic evidence. It convinced them they had the right guys. To ensure that they jury agreed they fabricated other evidence and with-held other evidence.

    The appeal court decided that the verdict was unsafe.

    One wonders what the verdict would have been had the police not fabricated evidence. Would there have been enough to convict?
    You do realise that the Balcombe Street Boys actually admitted to the Guildford, and I believe Birmingham bombs ?

    Not releasing the people in jail for them had nothing to do with poor forensics. Releasing them would have necessitated an admission by the Police that they had framed them in the first place.

    I suppose you still believe that Dean Lyons killed two women in Grangegorman
    1,197 people agree with me.. how many agree with you ?

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