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Thread: Still seeking to understand the system

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    Default Still seeking to understand the system

    A neighbour just told me she was told that had she (and others I suppose) given not her first, but her third preference to her most prefered candidate, who wasn't elected, the candidate would have fared better. She doesn't understand why that would be. Is there anything to this?

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    Politics.ie Member DS-09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christel View Post
    A neighbour just told me she was told that had she (and others I suppose) given not her first, but her third preference to her most prefered candidate, who wasn't elected, the candidate would have fared better. She doesn't understand why that would be. Is there anything to this?
    Could you please re-phrase this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christel View Post
    A neighbour just told me she was told that had she (and others I suppose) given not her first, but her third preference to her most prefered candidate, who wasn't elected, the candidate would have fared better. She doesn't understand why that would be. Is there anything to this?
    If I understand correctly, and assuming we're talking about an Irish election under single transferrable vote, then yes, this can happen. STV fails to satisfy something called monotonicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christel View Post
    A neighbour just told me she was told that had she (and others I suppose) given not her first, but her third preference to her most prefered candidate, who wasn't elected, the candidate would have fared better. She doesn't understand why that would be. Is there anything to this?
    No.. thats ridiculous

    If she gave her first preference to her preferred candidate, thats the best she could do for that candidate

    Had she given the candidate her third preference, then that candidate may never have recieved a vote from her... if for example the person she gave the no. 1 to was ahead of her preferred candidate in the count

    To be honest Christel, its almost a stupid question

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    I think stringjack is correct - because the order in which candidates are eliminated is important. If putting the first two preferences to other candidates would have meant the 'right' candidates were eliminated, things could theoretically have gone better for the preferred candidate. On the other hand, it takes hindsight to see what would have worked...
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    That's an odd one alright. I was thinking of one way in which it might happen and I think I had it but lost my train of thought. Could another way be if you vote Candidate A #1, B #2 and C #3, C being your preferred candidate, and A and B transferring heavily to other candidates who are in competition with C for a seat, and your first and second preferences help push A and B over the quote meaning that instead of them being eliminated and all their votes being redistributed, only their surpluses are which would be considerably smaller?

    I'm very tired so that probably doesn't work, I dunno.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringjack View Post
    If I understand correctly, and assuming we're talking about an Irish election under single transferrable vote, then yes, this can happen. STV fails to satisfy something called monotonicity.
    Thanks for your and all other answers so far. And sorry for not having mentioned that I'm still on about the Irish voting system.

    Will read your link which seems not easy to understand. My neighbour, who's Irish by the way, wouldn't. This system seems rather distant from common sense, doesn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringjack View Post
    If I understand correctly, and assuming we're talking about an Irish election under single transferrable vote, then yes, this can happen. STV fails to satisfy something called monotonicity.
    According to the link you gave "Of the multiple-winner voting systems, all plurality voting methods are monotonic, such as plurality-at-large voting (bloc voting), cumulative voting, and the single non-transferable vote" There is a exception given for a version of stv, but as I understand it it is not the version we use.
    So Christel as far as I know, it is not the case that voting someone down the ballot is better than giving them a higher preference. Where you have a favoured second candidate, it can make sense to give them your first preference, if you think your prefered candidate is strong enough not to need your first preference. Can be dangerous though.
    Feeling a little fitter now knowing that we have a monotonic voting system -wonder does it do Pilates?

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    a risky strategy ,a no. 1 is your best bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peader odonnell View Post
    a risky strategy ,a no. 1 is your best bet.
    Sounds like a candidate...

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