Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: A way to make the judges pay

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    13,428
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default A way to make the judges pay

    The constitution prevents the State reducing the pay of the judiciary. However, the relevant provision is correctly intended to stop politicians interfering with the independence of judges. Clearly those circumstances do not apply to the current economic crisis. As judges are part of the same class of overpaid top public servants as politicians, consultants and so forth, it is their duty to suffer pay-cuts (or however you want to describe the reductions) across-the-board.

    I'd suggest the following immediate action by the government:

    1. Specify in public an amount judge's pay will have to be reduced by. Say 10%, applying to all judges.

    2. If even a single judge refuses to cooperate, or takes a challenge against the State, then the Government will set in motion a referendum to suspend the application of Article 35 for a period of no more than 12 months, thus enabling them to implement the pay cut through legislation.

    ***

    That should get the message across to those who refuse to see common sense and see this as some kind of infringement of rights. Of course this kind of task would have been greatly simplified had the government from the outset applied these kinds of cuts to themselves and then to others overpaid by the public purse. But that shouldn't be allowed to detract from the duties of a profession which should above all be informed by ethics, fairness and social objectivity.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member JollyRedGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I have a better suggestion - sack the lot of them.

  3. #3
    birthday
    Guest

    Default

    How about the same day as the Lisbon referendum?

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McDave View Post
    The constitution prevents the State reducing the pay of the judiciary. However, the relevant provision is correctly intended to stop politicians interfering with the independence of judges. Clearly those circumstances do not apply to the current economic crisis. As judges are part of the same class of overpaid top public servants as politicians, consultants and so forth, it is their duty to suffer pay-cuts (or however you want to describe the reductions) across-the-board.

    I'd suggest the following immediate action by the government:

    1. Specify in public an amount judge's pay will have to be reduced by. Say 10%, applying to all judges.

    2. If even a single judge refuses to cooperate, or takes a challenge against the State, then the Government will set in motion a referendum to suspend the application of Article 35 for a period of no more than 12 months, thus enabling them to implement the pay cut through legislation.

    ***

    That should get the message across to those who refuse to see common sense and see this as some kind of infringement of rights. Of course this kind of task would have been greatly simplified had the government from the outset applied these kinds of cuts to themselves and then to others overpaid by the public purse. But that shouldn't be allowed to detract from the duties of a profession which should above all be informed by ethics, fairness and social objectivity.
    So you would suspend the clause protecting the independence of the Judiciary from the Executive when the time frame when all judges have in which to accept the pension levy still has ten months to go?? You might suspend judgement until such time has elapsed.

    Have you ever ran for election for FF by any chance??

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    13,428
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    So you would suspend the clause protecting the independence of the Judiciary from the Executive when the time frame when all judges have in which to accept the pension levy still has ten months to go?? You might suspend judgement until such time has elapsed.
    The clause exists to protect judicial independence. It's temporary suspension would be to enable judicial pay to be corrected in alignment with other parts of the public sector, not to interfere with their functions. Of course, the judiciary could (sensibly) avert such a course of action by agreeing as a corporate body to the requisite cut on a permanent basis.

    There should be a corporate response to this issue, not a contrived voluntary surrendering of donations by individuals, as if they were somehow doing everyone else a favour. We have enough opaque behaviour in this country without institutionalising behind-the-scenes formulae for public servants.

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    13,428
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birthday View Post
    How about the same day as the Lisbon referendum?
    That would put a reasonable timeframe on the settling of an open and transparent solution.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McDave View Post
    The clause exists to protect judicial independence. It's temporary suspension would be to enable judicial pay to be corrected in alignment with other parts of the public sector, not to interfere with their functions. Of course, the judiciary could (sensibly) avert such a course of action by agreeing as a corporate body to the requisite cut on a permanent basis.

    There should be a corporate response to this issue, not a contrived voluntary surrendering of donations by individuals, as if they were somehow doing everyone else a favour. We have enough opaque behaviour in this country without institutionalising behind-the-scenes formulae for public servants.
    I am not being smart nor mean to offend but do you have any knowledge of the Judiciary or their legal status in this Country? They are INDIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS (High and Supreme Court only) and there is no way that there can be imposed on them any curial response unless they are so willing. The provision can be unfair but it is the price we pay for an independent judiciary.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    3,611
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    I am not being smart nor mean to offend but do you have any knowledge of the Judiciary or their legal status in this Country? They are INDIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS (High and Supreme Court only) and there is no way that there can be imposed on them any curial response unless they are so willing. The provision can be unfair but it is the price we pay for an independent judiciary.
    Do they pay income-tax, health leavy, pension contributions, prsi?

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uriah View Post
    Do they pay income-tax, health leavy, pension contributions, prsi?
    Yes. The provision only relates to changing matters whilst individual judges are serving.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    I am not being smart nor mean to offend but do you have any knowledge of the Judiciary or their legal status in this Country? They are INDIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS (High and Supreme Court only) and there is no way that there can be imposed on them any curial response unless they are so willing. The provision can be unfair but it is the price we pay for an independent judiciary.
    AND it is a price worth paying.

    IF you go down the route of interfering with judges then first it will be about a trivial thing then something even more trivial and very soon you will be forcing judges to act the way the government wants or they pay the penalty.

    Idiots who want the judges independence destroyed don't understand the cost of them losing that independence.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •