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Thread: Universal Basic Income

  1. #1
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    Default Universal Basic Income

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

    What do people think of this idea? also known as a "minimum income" or "living wage"

    If your too lazy to read the article, the idea is that you abolish the entire welfare system, and replace it with an income big enough for everyone to live on, a few grand above the poverty line, there are various ways of calculating the sum.
    It would be paid by the state, and everyone would get it regardless of income, and if you make over a certan amount you'd just pay it back in taxes.

    It seems like a silver bullet to eliminate poverty, IF it could be made to function properly, and I think it could.

    I've a problem with that wiki article as it seems to assume that you have to implement a UBI throught a Negative Income Tax system, it could just as easily be done through the normal progressive tax system we have now?

    There seems to be two major problems with it...

    Firstly, if it didn't work. if enough people decided simply not to work, then there would be more people withdrawing from the system than paying into it, and it would thus collapse.
    Surely there could be some sort of work provisions similar to what we already have for traditional social welfare to prevent this "malabu surfer effect"?

    Secondly, if it did work, then employers, knowing an employee had a UBI to fall back on, could reduce their wages to cut costs, thus keeping a huge proportion of the population close to the basic minimum.
    This could surely be prevented by keeping the mimimum wage in place?

    (can we avoid one liner comments like "communism doesn't work" and "THATS CRAZY WHAT ABOUT THE ECONOMY" )

    This seems to be an American and Canadian idea I'm surpirsed I've never heard anyone in Europe sugest it!
    Signed, Universal (LGBT...QRSTUVWXYZ)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Universal Basic Income

    Quote Originally Posted by Universal_001
    This seems to be an American and Canadian idea I'm surpirsed I've never heard anyone in Europe sugest it!
    Really? CORI have been going on about it for ages, I think the Greens have tossed the idea around a bit and it was certainly something that Democratic Left looked at, back in d'olden days.
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

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    What a waste 4 years in College, and all those part-time jobs were. If Id have known that no matter what I did, Id end up with the same wage, I wouldn't have wasted my time studying and working. Id just have stayed a cashier in a bookies and earn the same as a doctor. Marvellous.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    What a waste 4 years in College, and all those part-time jobs were. If Id have known that no matter what I did, Id end up with the same wage, I wouldn't have wasted my time studying and working. Id just have stayed a cashier in a bookies and earn the same as a doctor. Marvellous.
    Perhaps you should actually try and understand the concept before commenting on it. It'll go better for you in the long run.
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    What a waste 4 years in College, and all those part-time jobs were. If Id have known that no matter what I did, Id end up with the same wage, I wouldn't have wasted my time studying and working. Id just have stayed a cashier in a bookies and earn the same as a doctor. Marvellous.
    Are you such a pathetic specimen that you would allow your brain to rot if you were not motivated by avarice?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    What a waste 4 years in College, and all those part-time jobs were. If Id have known that no matter what I did, Id end up with the same wage, I wouldn't have wasted my time studying and working. Id just have stayed a cashier in a bookies and earn the same as a doctor. Marvellous.
    Perhaps you should actually try and understand the concept before commenting on it. It'll go better for you in the long run.
    I was being sarcastic. However, I could have stayed a bokies cashier and received a much higher salary regardless. So still marvellous.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Universal Basic Income

    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    Quote Originally Posted by Universal_001
    This seems to be an American and Canadian idea I'm surpirsed I've never heard anyone in Europe sugest it!
    Really? CORI have been going on about it for ages, I think the Greens have tossed the idea around a bit and it was certainly something that Democratic Left looked at, back in d'olden days.
    Democratic Left were before my time.

    I did see on the Green website a little box flshing saying if you belive in XY and Z vote Green and one of the things was a "basic income for all citizens" but they never did a policy document on it's implementation as far as I'm aware.

    I like the concept but it's the implementation I'm conserned with, how it could be made to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    What a waste 4 years in College, and all those part-time jobs were. If Id have known that no matter what I did, Id end up with the same wage, I wouldn't have wasted my time studying and working. Id just have stayed a cashier in a bookies and earn the same as a doctor. Marvellous.
    This is the kind of comment I didn't want.

    It's not about people all earning the same money, it's just about setting a floor below which nobody can fall into poverty, incentive is still preserved, nobody is going to want to stay on the bare minimum.
    Signed, Universal (LGBT...QRSTUVWXYZ)

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    I was being sarcastic.
    That was sarcasm? It actually looked like an attempt at sarcasm, let down by a confusion between the concepts of minimum and maximum income.
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    I was being sarcastic.
    That was sarcasm? It actually looked like an attempt at sarcasm, let down by a confusion between the concepts of minimum and maximum income.
    Yes, yes, yes.
    As to gurrier, I wouldn't consider that insatiable greed for money would be my only motivation, but money is nice. I mean, it may not buy you happyness, but as the old saying goes, it makes misery more important. I presume you have a job that is so intellectually stimulating as to make up for any shortfall in income? I bet being a theologian is fierce interesting, but if it doesn't pay the bills it's sod all use.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether
    Yes, yes, yes.
    As to gurrier, I wouldn't consider that insatiable greed for money would be my only motivation, but money is nice. I mean, it may not buy you happyness, but as the old saying goes, it makes misery more important. I presume you have a job that is so intellectually stimulating as to make up for any shortfall in income? I bet being a theologian is fierce interesting, but if it doesn't pay the bills it's sod all use.
    Is any of this relevant to the topic?
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

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