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Thread: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

  1. #1

    Default Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Give or take a couple of per cent, the Nationalist population in Northern Ireland is about 41%.

    If it were to go up to 45% within a few years, for example, then we would obviously have to start planning on a practical basis how a re-united Ireland could be implemented in the distant future.

    Should we leave it until that late? What are the practical issues, so that we can start to deal with them now?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by sean1
    Give or take a couple of per cent, the Nationalist population in Northern Ireland is about 41%.

    If it were to go up to 45% within a few years, for example, then we would obviously have to start planning on a practical basis how a re-united Ireland could be implemented in the distant future.
    How do you know that everyone who votes for a nationalist/republican party (I assume that's where you're getting the 41% from, as it would be very foolish to base this simply on numbers of Catholics in the six counties) would also vote for a United Ireland?
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

  3. #3

    Default Re: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    How do you know that everyone who votes for a nationalist/republican party (I assume that's where you're getting the 41% from, as it would be very foolish to base this simply on numbers of Catholics in the six counties) would also vote for a United Ireland?
    I am surprised that you asked this question. Given that they are Nationalist parties, I would presume that they would vote for a re-united Ireland.

    Granted there maybe some that wouldn't, but there would also be some Unionist Party(ies) supporters that would conversly vote for one. A survey carried out a few years ago said that between 20-30% of Alliance Party supporters, for example, would vote for a re-united Ireland.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by sean1
    I am surprised that you asked this question. Given that they are Nationalist parties, I would presume that they would vote for a re-united Ireland.
    Yes, I thought you might presume that.

    Would they vote for a 're-united Ireland' (as you put it) if it meant, for example, losing access to the UK National Health Service and its benefits? You see where I might be going with this?
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

  5. #5

    Default Re: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    Would they vote for a 're-united Ireland' (as you put it) if it meant, for example, losing access to the UK National Health Service and its benefits? You see where I might be going with this?
    In case you haven't been following the debate about the Public Health Service in the North, I will inform you that they are having debates to its problems
    similar to ours in the South.

    Any other examples as to where you "might be going with this"?

  6. #6
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    This is a huge issue, and its one that lots of people haven't even looked at.

    The fact is that lots of people have simply assumed that a united, 32-county Ireland, will be exactly the same as the current 26, with 6 counties added on - but that's not the case. We in the Republic are gonna have to face the fact that there will be changes - and not all of them will be attractive. For starters, I think we're looking at Commonwealth membership (dealt with on another thread). I also think there'll be guaranteed minimum parliamentary representation for the constituencies of the 6 counties for an initial period. There'll also be cultural changes - to be simplistic about it, July 12th will be a national holiday, but there'll also be changes to the anthem, flag, etc. And then there's the taxation issue. Many people in the Republic pay lip-service to the idea of a United Ireland - but if, given how much of a loss-making entity Northern Ireland is, if people in the Republic were faced with a tax hike to pay for unity, support would ebb away pretty fast. So there's a lot more to the issue than meets the eye.
    "So how are things at the Campaign for the Freedom of Information, by the way?" "Sorry, I can't talk about that"

  7. #7

    Default Re: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by sean1
    In case you haven't been following the debate about the Public Health Service in the North, I will inform you that they are having similar debates to its problems that we are having in the South.


    What's the price of a visit to the dentist in NI, compared to here?

    Any other examples of to where you "might be going with this"?
    Where I'm going is that, when it comes down to an actual question being put to the electorate (which is very unlikely anyway), you shouldn't underestimate the extent to which people will vote on the basis of practical, day-to-day-issues as opposed to 'Ireland long a province be a nation once again' kind of nationalism.

    It's pointless talking about a 're-united Ireland' without explaining what the exact consequences of such a change will be, when guessing how people will vote. What will change for the people of NI (and the people of the Republic) following 're-unification'.
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

  8. #8

    Default

    I'm glad hiding behind a poster that you have thought about some of the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    This is a huge issue, and its one that lots of people haven't even looked at.

    The fact is that lots of people have simply assumed that a united, 32-county Ireland, will be exactly the same as the current 26, with 6 counties added on - but that's not the case.We in the Republic are gonna have to face the fact that there will be changes - and not all of them will be attractive.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    For starters, I think we're looking at Commonwealth membership (dealt with on another thread).
    I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    I also think there'll be guaranteed minimum parliamentary repres
    entation for the constituencies of the 6 counties for an initial period.
    What do you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    There'll also be cultural changes - to be simplistic about it, July 12th will be a national holiday,
    I'd have no problem with that, I don't think.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    but there'll also be changes to the anthem, flag, etc.
    These would be big issues for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    And then there's the taxation issue. Many people in the Republic pay lip-service to the idea of a United Ireland
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    but if, given how much of a loss-making entity Northern Ireland is, if people in the Republic were faced with a tax hike to pay for unity, support would ebb away pretty fast. So there's a lot more to the issue than meets the eye.
    I agree that a proportion of the South would be reluctant if the taxation issue was there, but I don't think that it would be.

    The biggest issue would be the one of violence. This issue (which is related to the economy e.g how are loyalist working class areas fairing?) can be dealt with if it is not left too late. Bertie Ahern spoke about Loyalist working class areas in Washington yesterday. I think that both Loyalist and Republican areas in the North need a lot of money, yesterday.

  9. #9

    Default

    Okay sean, if you've given such thought to the 'nuances', what do you think the main practical changes will be in the lives of the people of Ireland, North and South, resulting from this 're-unification'?
    Failed liberal traitors: http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com

  10. #10

    Default Re: Nuances of a re-united Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    Quote Originally Posted by sean1
    In case you haven't been following the debate about the Public Health Service in the North, I will inform you that they are having similar debates to its problems that we are having in the South.


    What's the price of a visit to the dentist in NI, compared to here?
    Do you have any other examples? Overall, our economy fairs better than theres, including when you take the Health Service into account in the overall context.

    Any other examples of to where you "might be going with this"?
    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy
    Where I'm going is that, when it comes down to an actual question being put to the electorate (which is very unlikely anyway), you shouldn't underestimate the extent to which people will vote on the basis of practical, day-to-day-issues as opposed to 'Ireland long a province be a nation once again' kind of nationalism.

    It's pointless talking about a 're-united Ireland' without explaining what the exact consequences of such a change will be, when guessing how people will vote.
    Obviously. The fact that the mostly Unionist dominated Trade Union for medium sized businesses (whatever its called) is in favour of 7 County Councils (3-perhaps 4- of which would be Nationalist dominated), despite the outrage of the two main Unionist parties, says that many people of the Unionist tradition will vote with their pockets for cooperation with the South, as much as many Nationalist voters would vote to stay within the UK.

    I think the economic argument is pretty sown up. It was the case that people in the North were better off economically within the UK. The oppossite is the case now.

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