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Thread: Patients are a nuisance,they get in the way

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    Politics.ie Member cakeordeath's Avatar
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    Default Patients are a nuisance,they get in the way

    Why our hospitals simply aren't working



    “…patients are regarded as a nuisance … they get in the way of running the place.”
    For that alone he has my respect.


    Niall Hunter, editor. IrishHealth.com
    11/03/09
    Interview with Michael O keeffe, respected consultant Mater & in Temple Street.
    Formerly a senior figure in the Irish Hospital Consultants Association.



    … change needs to start at the top.

    “Hospital chief executives do not know what is happening on the ground; they do not visit any clinics. They never come to see what the problems are.”

    … 20% of nurses are now on administrative duty, walking around with clipboards and they do not see patients.”

    … consultants who are doing the same; going off and doing other things, getting grants to do research and becoming professors. … not doing what they were appointed to do.

    …“There is no-one overseeing things.
    He asks all the questions we are sick of asking:

    why don’t clinics start on time?
    Why are they not at full capacity?
    Why are the secretaries not there on time?
    Why are operating lists not starting on time?
    Why does everyone get an outpatient appointment at the same time?”
    I have taken this one up repeatedly with consultants. I ( because of our son) am at the hospital every week for the last 8 years. Oh Boy! …do I have stories….

    Mr O’Keeffe says hospitals cancel patient appointments and operations far too easily.
    They do , but if YOU need to cancel/reschedule? You wait 6 months.

    “The first thing that happens when a problem arises is we cancel the patient’s appointment or operation. It should be the very last resort to do this.”
    Yes.

    Mr O’Keeffe says the attitude now appears to be that public hospitals would run much better if there were no patients in them.
    “By and large patients are regarded as a nuisance in the public hospital system. They get in the way of running the place.”
    and … more patients will cause the Hosp. to go over budget......
    And I believe him. Shocking!
    Get people working properly;
    get them in on time,
    find out why the phone isn’t being answered,
    why the desk isn’t being manned,
    why the clinic isn’t running on time,
    why the doctor is not there.
    “They should say to doctors that they are there to treat patients. Nurses … you are there to nurse.
    “The idea that co-located hospitals are going to fill the bed capacity gap is a joke, because co-located units are only going to be to be in a certain number of hospitals…

    Mr O’Keeffe claims Fianna Fail in Government never really bought into the co-location idea but “it was a great excuse for them not to find the extra capacity”.

    “So they went along with Mary Harney, whose motives were very much towards privatisation. She decided she couldn’t take on all the vested interests so she decided to bypass all that but it has backfired. There is no money to build the co-located hospitals now anyway.”

    …He says the NTPF would not exist if public hospitals were running efficiently.


    …and finally…
    “In many cases it is only when the patient is leaving that the hospital realises they are private so they go chasing after them with an insurance form. A lot of public hospitals are relying on their private income to survive nowadays.”

    It’s a joke. Lets face it, you sleep you on a trolley and bill you for five star.€€€€€€€€€€€€€€!

    I hope someone listens.

    Full article below.

    http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=15197


    our hospitals simply aren't working
    Last edited by cakeordeath; 19th March 2009 at 01:54 PM. Reason: The previous link was allowing people access my personal account with Irish Health!

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member Pauli's Avatar
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    Excellent post. Here is a summary.

    There is NO accountability in the upper reaches of the Irish health service, starting with the Minister for Health and working down. EVERYBODY avoids accountability and this avoidance is of gargantuan proportions. It is why the system is failing daily.
    Fianna Fail - The Loss of Sovereignty Party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauli View Post
    Excellent post. Here is a summary.

    There is NO accountability in the upper reaches of the Irish health service, starting with the Minister for Health and working down. EVERYBODY avoids accountability and this avoidance is of gargantuan proportions. It is why the system is failing daily.
    I agree with you but, additionally the health unions also assisting in making the system inefficient.

    I think its fair to say that we all want a health system that works, is it time for all the vested interests to sit down and sort it out?

    My experience of the system is fairly positive, the systems work's to a large extent, but not without the regular poke, push and yell from me.

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    Politics.ie Member jpc's Avatar
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    Too many vested interests competing with each other rather than serving the public.
    Its only a chat, we ain't the world council.

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    Politics.ie Member Pauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpc View Post
    Too many vested interests competing with each other rather than serving the public.
    And one must always remember that the Minister is dedicated to representing a specific set of vested interests, not necessarily in the interest of fostering and furthering a workable PUBLIC health policy, even though that is her job.
    Fianna Fail - The Loss of Sovereignty Party.

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    Just as an example of inefficiency - my mother had an appt with consultant in public out patients. Time 2pm. 100 people arrived at the same time for the same appointment. So if you got there at 12 and waited and got your name down first, you are seen first. Mad!

    Secondly, a trolley waits outside the consultants office. On it are the case files of all patients with appointments that day. Mum's is called, a nurse gathers up her file, and presents it to God (consultant). That is her job! Now that person has gone through 4 years of training, for what? to deliver a file to a doctor. I could do that myself. That is one reason we have a larger nurse to patient ratio than other countries, a lot of the nurses aren't actually nursing.

    Its a bit like the civilian work that was once done by the Gardai. Slowly being undertaken by civvies.

    I could go on, and on, and on, but generally, once in the system the care is good, it is A+E and outpatients that are the problem. Too many people at the one time, nurses not nursing.

    I love a rant!

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    Politics.ie Member jpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauli View Post
    And one must always remember that the Minister is dedicated to representing a specific set of vested interests, not necessarily in the interest of fostering and furthering a workable PUBLIC health policy, even though that is her job.
    Can't argue that.
    And when she initiated the HSE there was no cut in staffing due to political and union pressure.
    Its only a chat, we ain't the world council.

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    “There is inefficiency at every level and we are all at fault - doctors, nurses, porters, paramedical staff. It is all dysfunctional and the system has become very demoralised.”

    “I work in the public and the private system and the private system is way more effective. I can run a theatre list in the private hospital I am attached to every Tuesday morning and I can do more than double the number of cases in the same time as I can do in the public hospital.”

    Michael O’Keeffe says public hospitals need a Michael O’Leary type figure in charge who will “go in and take people on”.

    “Such a figure could get practical things done. And go back to basics.”
    Not sure about Michael O'Leary, but what he says above sounds right to me. I had to go to the D-DOC out of hours service the other day with my daughter. It's an excellent service, so I'm reluctant to criticise it. But apart from the GP, who I presume got the €60 that I paid, there were three other staff, presumably paid by the HSE - a security guard who sat at the reception doing nothing, a receptionist reading a book because she had practically nothing to do, and a nurse who was busy enough, but was duplicating a lot of the work of the doctor (ie. asking the same questions).

    With a bit of organisation, I think the GP and the nurse could have managed the whole operation. I think it's that kind of inefficiency that the public system is rife with.

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    Politics.ie Member cakeordeath's Avatar
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    Good consultants are consistently frustrated by bureaucracy.

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    Politics.ie Member Pauli's Avatar
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    The O'Leary thing again. A loud-mouthed eccentric runs a bucket airline in an idiosyncratic manner and somehow he is the answer to all the problems in the public sector.

    Strange
    Fianna Fail - The Loss of Sovereignty Party.

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