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Thread: EU Law and unemployed migrants

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    Default EU Law and unemployed migrants

    Can someone clarify the following?

    I met a Polish guy the other day who has been on Unemployment Benefit/Assistance for 1 year.

    My understanding of the Free Movement of Persons is that it entitles EU citizens to reside in another EU state while they are working, including for a reasonable time while they are looking for work, and that EU case law would suggest that 6 months is a reasonable time when it comes to looking for work.

    Obviously, no state is compelled deport a worker who is not working, but surely it is within the gift of member states to seek repatriation of EU nationals after 1 year?

    Is there a different rule in respect of a an EU national who comes here and spends 6 months looking for work, and say, an EU national who has worked here for several years and who has been made redundant (i.e. they have paid PRSI).

    Is the State legally entitled to deport EU nationals at any stage after they have been working here, even if they are unemployed for several years?.
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    Politics.ie Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Can't see why they would go home voluntarily and haven't heard of any being deported on grounds of their now being a burden to the state.

    I guess we're stuck with them as we're stuck with anymore that choose to arrive. Sure we can keep borrowing, we ain't quite bankrupt yet.

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    I have never seen any country deporting an immigrant long term immigrant for a reasons of economic down turn, i mean get over it.

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    Politics.ie Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Most countries that have temporary labour shortages import workers on the proviso that they return home if they are to become a burden on the state.

    Kinda sensible I know but we're different. We're the thick paddy's.

    Ah shure it'll be grand

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    Quote Originally Posted by readmylips View Post
    I have never seen any country deporting an immigrant long term immigrant for a reasons of economic down turn, i mean get over it.
    There are several ECJ cases where EU Nationals have been refused Residency Permits on the grounds that they have not secured employment.

    However, these relate to people who never worked in a host country, rather than people who have moved from being employed to being unemployed.

    Its a simple question of law.

    The issue probably hasn't arisen before given low levels of unemployment, but I imagine that such a case will arise before too long.
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    Politics.ie Member seabhcan's Avatar
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    We have about 100,000 adults in the state who have never worked at all, and many of these are the children of parents who never worked.

    I'd be more interested in ways to tackle this problem rather than pressing on people who find themselves unemployed after several productive years.

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    So how does it work for all the Northern Europeans who retire to Spain? Obviously, they're allowed to, because they're there, but they also aren't exactly going to be looking for work.

    Is the requirement to be able to support oneself rather than work?
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    Politics.ie Member seabhcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locke View Post
    So how does it work for all the Northern Europeans who retire to Spain? Obviously, they're allowed to, because they're there, but they also aren't exactly going to be looking for work.

    Is the requirement to be able to support oneself rather than work?
    Any such rules are fairly unenforceable anyway. Within Schengen its effectively impossible to deport someone to another Schengen state even if you wanted to - because there is nothing preventing them from returning.

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    Politics.ie Member forest's Avatar
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    if you an EU citizen you can live in amy country in the EU you want working or not working
    If you happen to win the lotto and move to Spain and never work again fine
    If you move to Germany and work for 2/hr fine
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    Politics.ie Member Brenny's Avatar
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    goosebump EU Law and unemployed migrants

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Can someone clarify the following?

    I met a Polish guy the other day who has been on Unemployment Benefit/Assistance for 1 year.

    My understanding of the Free Movement of Persons is that it entitles EU citizens to reside in another EU state while they are working, including for a reasonable time while they are looking for work, and that EU case law would suggest that 6 months is a reasonable time when it comes to looking for work.

    Obviously, no state is compelled deport a worker who is not working, but surely it is within the gift of member states to seek repatriation of EU nationals after 1 year?

    Is there a different rule in respect of a an EU national who comes here and spends 6 months looking for work, and say, an EU national who has worked here for several years and who has been made redundant (i.e. they have paid PRSI).

    Is the State legally entitled to deport EU nationals at any stage after they have been working here, even if they are unemployed for several years?.
    They can't come over here and just sign on if that's what you're saying they have to work for either two years I think before they can claim unemployment benefit. I'm not sure from your post if you're aware of this or not. That was legislation that the Dail passed shortly before the accession states were admitted. Here's a draft of the bill from 2004, hope the link works I'm not great at this sort of stuff.

    http://www.nccri.ie/pdf/4thMarchEUaccession.pdf


    There were many cases of lads coming over here and getting into desperate trouble cause they couldn't get a job and didn't have money to go home, they still couldn't sign on though. I worked with a Polish girl in Dell who hurt her back after working in Ireland for about 6 months and I remember there was some problem with her claiming welfare.

    It gets tricky though if a person hasn't worked here two years but has lost their job, the EU told Ireland back in 2006 that if this happens they have to be entitled to welfare benefit.

    Migrant workers can now claim benefits - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

    Sorry if you already knew this, it wasn't clear from your post. Here's what Hanafin had to say on the subject in 2008 and what the indo then said about it,

    New crackdown on welfare fraud may violate EU law - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

    "The proposal to compel newly unemployed Irish and foreign workers to sign for their dole payments at their local post office each week is unenforceable under European legislation protecting the right of social welfare recipients to freedom of movement within the EU.

    At the time of her announcement, Ms Hanafin made much of the fact that her department had saved 1.5m following an investigation of 2,000 people on the Live Register who were not living in Ireland, or were not actively seeking work here.

    The minister further claimed that that those suspected of continuing to claim social welfare in Ireland, but who had left the country, could be prosecuted under EU welfare rules.

    Ms Hanafin neglected, however, to make reference to EU Regulation 1408/71 which allows any person in any member state receiving unemployment benefit to travel to another EU country in search of work, without losing entitlement to their original benefit.

    In fairness to the minister, a number of conditions do attach to payment of Irish social welfare to claimants living in another EU state.

    According to the legislation, the claimant is obliged to remain in Ireland for a period of four weeks after they become unemployed to look for work before leaving.

    After that period has elapsed, and having travelled to the other EU country, the claimant is then required to register with the relevant welfare authority there."

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