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Thread: Israel's Role in World Conflicts: Georgia, Darfur, Kashmir. Brzezinski's Attack Dogs

  1. #1
    Asi-Irish
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    Default Israel's Role in World Conflicts: Georgia, Darfur, Kashmir. Brzezinski's Attack Dogs

    Hi. Anyone who wants to rant about anti-semitism, please get it over with now, so anyone who wants to debate the issue in question can do so in a rational manner. My PM box is open for Zionist hate mail, feel free to PM me!

    Now, on to the topic.

    Most people know that Israel played a significant role in the recent Russia-Georgia conflict:

    Since 2000, Israel has sold hundreds of millions of dollars in arms and combat training to Georgia. Weapons included guns, ammunition, shells, tactical missile systems, antiaircraft systems, automatic turrets for armored vehicles, electronic equipment and remotely piloted aircraft. These sales were authorized by the Israeli defense ministry (Arie Egozi, "War in Georgia: The Israeli connection," Ynet, 10 August 2008).

    Training also involved officers from Israel's Shin Bet secret service -- which has for decades carried out extrajudicial executions and torture of Palestinians in the occupied territories -- the Israeli police, and the country's major arms companies Elbit and Rafael.

    Israel's Role in the Russia-Georgia Conflict | Tacoma SDS

    It seems they are also playing a significant role in the Darfur crisis:

    Libyan President Muammar Gadhafi said Israel is to blame for the crisis in Darfur.

    Gadhafi, president of the African Union, said Tuesday that "foreign forces," including Israel, are to blame for the genocide in the Sudan region.

    "We discovered that some of the main leaders of the Darfur rebels have opened offices in Tel Aviv and hold meetings with the military there to add fuel to the conflict fire," the Libyan state news agency Jana quoted Gadhafi as saying, Ha'aretz reported.

    Gadhafi: Israel responsible for Darfur crisis | JTA - Jewish & Israel News

    More details on the role Israel is playing in Darfur (including hosting offices for the Darfur rebels and giving at least 600 refugees from Darfur residency & work permits) is available on line.

    After the Mumbai attacks, it became clear that Israel's Mossad is also involved in the Kashmir dispute. Israel sent advisors to India after the attacks to assist in their operations in Kashmir. The India Intelligence Agency, RAW, has a long established relationship with Mossad. See below for more info on the growing ties between Israel & India:

    A Rediff story in 2003 revealed that the Indian external intelligence agency R&AW had clandestine links with the Mossad, Israel's external intelligence agency. When R&AW was founded in 1968 by Rameshwar Nath Kao, he was advised by the then Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi to cultivate links with Mossad.

    This was suggested as a countermeasure to military links between that of a hostile Pakistan and China, as well as with North Korea. Israel was also concerned that Pakistani army officers were training Libyans and Iranians in handling Chinese and North Korean military equipment. Though India planned to bomb Kahuta, as in Operation Opera, where Israel destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor, the plan was later dropped.

    The Pakistanis eventually started to suspect intelligence relations between India and Israel resulting in a threat to Pakistani security. When young Israeli tourists began visiting the Kashmir valley in the early nineties, Pakistan suspected they were disguised Israeli army officers there to help Indian security forces with counter-terrorism operations. Pakistani intelligence inspired a series of terrorist attacks on the unsuspecting Israeli tourists with one slain and another kidnapped. Intense pressure from the Kashmiri Muslim diaspora in the United States led to their release.

    On November 10th 2008, Indian military officials are expected to visit Israel to to discuss joint weapons development projects, additional sales of Israeli equipment to the Indian military, and counter-terrorism strategies. The new round of talks are seen as a significant expansion in the Indian-Israeli strategic partnership.

    In 2008, Israel surpassed Russia as the largest arms supplier to India.

    India?Israel relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Beginning just before Obama's election, experts began to discuss the plans of Obama's foreign affairs advisor, Brzezinski, for securing US world dominance.

    The general jist of it is that Brzezinski (who masterminded the downfall of the Soviet Empire through US support of the Mujahideen in Afghanistan), is planning to do the same with both China and Russia, drawing them into proxy conflicts.

    Israel's support for Georgia, the Darfur rebels and the Indians would seem to support this theory.

    Discuss...

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    'Libyan President Muammar Gadhafi said Israel is to blame for the crisis in Darfur'


    I think that chinas support for Bashir might have something to do with the continuing slaughter in Darfur. But then again Gadaffi is a sane and balanced commentator so you could be on to something.

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    Maybe you should have read the next sentence, i.e. foreign forces, including Israel.
    We all know about China's involvement

  4. #4
    Asi-Irish
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    How very well informed you are... well done, you've managed to internalize the "China is wrong because China does business with Sudan, and the Sudanese use China's money to murder innocent people" line.

    Now. I don't particularly like the Chinese or Sudanese governments. But that doesn't stop me from looking a little deeper.

    I have a Jewish source for you on the links between the Darfur Rebels and Israel, since you don't trust Gadhafi (BTW he's probably a more reliable source than anyone inside the US, British or Israeli governments).


    The leader of one of the rebel groups in Sudan's Darfur region recently visited Israel to discuss with a senior Israeli official the situation in Sudan.

    Abdel Wahid al-Nur is the head of the Sudan Liberation Movement. While in Israel, he met with the senior official and discussed with him the ongoing conflict in Sudan.
    ................

    In the past, he has spoken in favor of establishing diplomatic ties between Sudan and Israel, and a year ago, he even announced that his movement was opening an office in Tel Aviv, staffed by Sudanese refugees who found asylum in Israel after fleeing the massacres committed by Bashir's forces in Darfur.
    .................

    Israel currently has more than 600 Darfur refugees, and Ehud Olmert's government decided to grant them all asylum and work permits.



    Darfur rebel leader visited Israel - Haaretz - Israel News

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asi-Irish View Post
    How very well informed you are... well done, you've managed to internalize the "China is wrong because China does business with Sudan, and the Sudanese use China's money to murder innocent people" line.

    Now. I don't particularly like the Chinese or Sudanese governments. But that doesn't stop me from looking a little deeper.

    I have a Jewish source for you on the links between the Darfur Rebels and Israel, since you don't trust Gadhafi (BTW he's probably a more reliable source than anyone inside the US, British or Israeli governments).


    The leader of one of the rebel groups in Sudan's Darfur region recently visited Israel to discuss with a senior Israeli official the situation in Sudan.

    Abdel Wahid al-Nur is the head of the Sudan Liberation Movement. While in Israel, he met with the senior official and discussed with him the ongoing conflict in Sudan.
    ................

    In the past, he has spoken in favor of establishing diplomatic ties between Sudan and Israel, and a year ago, he even announced that his movement was opening an office in Tel Aviv, staffed by Sudanese refugees who found asylum in Israel after fleeing the massacres committed by Bashir's forces in Darfur.
    .................

    Israel currently has more than 600 Darfur refugees, and Ehud Olmert's government decided to grant them all asylum and work permits.



    Darfur rebel leader visited Israel - Haaretz - Israel News
    I don't know the whole story re Darfur but i doubt you or anyone else on this site does either- unless you are posting from inside Sudan/Darfur maybe. As for reliability of US/ britain I never said I considered them reliable. what I do think though is that the sudanese government and their associated militias are commiting something tantamount to genocide in Darfur and in that context fair play to Israel for accepting refugees small amount as it is at 600. I'll probably get the usual israeli genocide in palestine argument but thats for another discussion. I have a feeling that your problem is that it is Israel that is involved at all, not what they are doing - unless you support the Bashir government position. i don't agree with everything Israel does however a small bit of balance wouldn't go amiss but I suppose that'd be a bit much to expect in any post involving Israel and muslims. I don't profess to be an expert but I do my best to read up on history and I try to stay objective there are only various shades of grey when it comes to any conflict - very rarely is one side right. even WW2 history has proven this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis Parsley View Post
    Maybe you should have read the next sentence, i.e. foreign forces, including Israel.
    We all know about China's involvement
    The one I quoted is fairly blatant. Gadhafi blamed Israel. I'm impressed with your ability to summarise though.

  7. #7
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    You're right. My problem is that Israel are involved at all. They may be doing some good, but if they are, they are doing it to further their own agenda.

    In fact, if they are supporting a rebel group, and the result turns out to be a prolonged conflict with even more civilian casualties, then they are making the situation worse.

    I also think the situation in Darfur is pretty close to genocide. Then again, so was the situation in Rwanda.

    What did the West do then? Nothing.

    In fact, it seems the West never intervened to halt a genocide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iartaoiseach View Post
    I don't know the whole story re Darfur but i doubt you or anyone else on this site does either- unless you are posting from inside Sudan/Darfur maybe. As for reliability of US/ britain I never said I considered them reliable. what I do think though is that the sudanese government and their associated militias are commiting something tantamount to genocide in Darfur and in that context fair play to Israel for accepting refugees small amount as it is at 600. I'll probably get the usual israeli genocide in palestine argument but thats for another discussion. I have a feeling that your problem is that it is Israel that is involved at all, not what they are doing - unless you support the Bashir government position. i don't agree with everything Israel does however a small bit of balance wouldn't go amiss but I suppose that'd be a bit much to expect in any post involving Israel and muslims. I don't profess to be an expert but I do my best to read up on history and I try to stay objective there are only various shades of grey when it comes to any conflict - very rarely is one side right. even WW2 history has proven this.
    Slightly off the main subject but I find it incredible that the ICC criminalised Bashir. Not that he doesn't deserve it but in terms of what has now happened in retrospect vis'a'vis the flight of NGOs and UN organisations from Darfur. Did they not see that this might happen or is there someting more sinister afoot? Does anyone know who the leading players in implementing the ICC decision/ruling were or their possible motivations?

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    Basic scape goating of the jews to give an Muslim nation, carrying out genocide against Muslims of the wrong colour, a free pass. Thats what scape goating is for.

    Its rather astonishing that the continued genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out against the Darfurians continues to evoke little or no response from the wider Muslim world, except to support Sudans actions. This stunt by Gadaffi simply copperfastens support for Sudan by making the people of Darfur, who are still dying in the thousands, accomplices or dupes of the hated jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asi-Irish View Post
    You're right. My problem is that Israel are involved at all. They may be doing some good, but if they are, they are doing it to further their own agenda.

    In fact, if they are supporting a rebel group, and the result turns out to be a prolonged conflict with even more civilian casualties, then they are making the situation worse.

    I also think the situation in Darfur is pretty close to genocide. Then again, so was the situation in Rwanda.

    What did the West do then? Nothing.

    In fact, it seems the West never intervened to halt a genocide.
    you are right on the wests cowardly response to genocide- Samantha Power has comprehensively nailed western policy on that. The rebel group in Darfur seems to me to be responding to the Janjaweed atacks - I may be wrong on that. I doubt that the rebel presence is what is causing the conflict - conflict or genocide? Every country has it's own agenda it's human nature - you also have your anti Israel one correct? I think you would be hard pushed to find a genuinely neutral country with the interests of people/victims at heart. we should however recognise that individuals Eg Dalliere of the UN in Rwanda do their best despite all the cynicism of govenments etc and we should give some credit when its due. we could go on about rights and wrongs all day and go round in circles that is what has the world in the mess it's in. I happen to believe - naively- that nationalism and religion cause way more harm than good and are used as excuses and justification for barbarity. for a species that is supposed to be the most intelligent of all we don't learn much from history.

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