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Thread: Are the Banks being used as a smoke screen?

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    Politics.ie Member jcdf's Avatar
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    Default Are the Banks being used as a smoke screen?

    I read in the Irish Daily Mail yesterday Mary Ellen Synon discussing the Fianna Fail and the Banks.
    A summery of her article is that the Irish government has nationalized a bank with huge losses, which the Taxpayer will have to cover in time. In an effort to cover their mistake FF have put on a show of the authorities raiding Anglo Irish Bank. Since Anglo Irish bank was nationalized it belongs to the Irish Government along with all its records. Brian Cowen in his recent speech incited hatred against the Banks even though they could only do what the Irish Government allowed them too.
    The British and American government have being doing something similar.
    So are we piling too much blame on the banks and not enough on our own government?
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    The first people to blame are the Government,they regulate the banks ,they have someone from the central bank sitting on the ECB commitee which set interest rates to low and flooded the market with cheap money and easy credit.They encouraged reckless lending Bertie"the boom is getting boomier" (july 2006) he kept cranking it up along with is chimp ministers.
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

    WEAVER, HENRY GRADY,

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    Politics.ie Member jpc's Avatar
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    The banks were "lightly" regulated.They called for lighter regulation.The banks loan books generated the revenues that the goverment squandered since 2001.
    The goverment didn't do anything that might impeded the laying of the golden eggs.
    It is also apparent that they appointed individuals that were totally incompetent in the oversight of the bank industry.
    This pathetic attempt to divert attention from their criminal negligence will come back to burn them.
    The chaps aren't going to let the gombeens get away with the blame and shame tactic.
    Its only a chat, we ain't the world council.

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    Default Banks

    Yes the banks are being used as a sacapegoat. Fianna Fail stoked an already overheated property and building boom. Banks foolishly bought in to Fianna Fails crass stupidity and greed in order to keep market share and profits. Fianna Fails house of cards yet again has crumbled and the ordinary people will pay the price. Fianna Fails main occupation now is how to minimise their losses in the forthcoming local and European elections and how to con the people again at the next General Election. In the eyes of the FF faithful FF is Ireland and so saving FF equals saving Ireland. In the meantime the real Ireland will continue to go down the tubes.

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    Politics.ie Member carlovian's Avatar
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    People want a scapegoat and FF are determined to put the bankers in the firing line.

    No mention of developers in Noel Dempseys "Cromwell" speech.

    No mention of the previous finance minister (Cowen) and his light touch regulation.

    No mention of 12 years of FF governments leading us to the edge of insolvency.

    It was all the bankers and Pat Nearys fault, not us, no way.
    I believe that children are the future

    Unless we stop them now.

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    Yes we cannot let FF get away with this.
    Other parties did not want to nationaliose Anglo and at least turn it into a bad bank after they did rather than the ridiculous assumption of a going concern.
    With anglo the government has thrown at least 5billion onto the taxpayers debt and they have got away with it so far for the countrys interest.

    People don't realise that Anglo and Nationwide are 2 property speculators and shoul dnever of been included in the national guarantee.
    If there was any sense they shoul dof went to the dogs and let the bond holders get whatever they could squeeze out of them.

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    Bank bailout prize
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4hrnbhIHDY]YouTube - Right.org: Bailout Prize Patrol[/ame]
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

    WEAVER, HENRY GRADY,

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    Politics.ie Newbie /etc's Avatar
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    Default It's Us Who Are In The Crosshair

    Quote Originally Posted by carlovian View Post
    People want a scapegoat and FF are determined to put the bankers in the firing line.

    No mention of developers in Noel Dempseys "Cromwell" speech.

    No mention of the previous finance minister (Cowen) and his light touch regulation.

    No mention of 12 years of FF governments leading us to the edge of insolvency.

    It was all the bankers and Pat Nearys fault, not us, no way.
    Unfortunately, it's us, the taxpayers, who are in the crosshair. It's our money that the Government is using to buy a dodgy bank whose loan book is in such a complete mess that neither the buyer nor the seller know approximately what's in it.

    We also give unlimited guarantees to bank deposits - not a very wise move indeed. In essence, it means the Government (us the taxpayers) has re-capitalized the insolvent banks (translated this to "all banks in Ireland") without taking up equity. A dodgy way of nationalization of the banks.

    Reality will come one day but we are still in this lengthy period of pretense.

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    Politics.ie Member jcdf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by /etc View Post
    Reality will come one day but we are still in this lengthy period of pretense.
    When will this period come and what happens when it does?
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    Default If only we can outperform Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by jcdf View Post
    When will this period come and what happens when it does?
    Reality tends to manifest itself in different forms depending on where you are. For someone like me who are on the dole, it will mean a significant reduction in the amount of dole money I'm getting. For others, it may mean switching from Chanel to Relvon or from a pair of Ferragamo to a pair of Clarks. Or, from private jet to business class.

    The Government are still pretending that they are in control while they are so far behind the curve. The budget should have been revised earlier but they decided to wait until the apparent deterioration of tax receipts is forcing their hand. It is not done as a result of foresight. It is done because they no longer have any other choices.

    Many people would like to draw a parallel between the current crisis and Japan's experience of its “lost decade” in the 1990s. They are not actually comparable but some figures below may help us comprehend the severity of problems we are facing:

    We entered the current crisis in a relatively healthy state of public finance with a national debt amounting to 25% of GDP last year. It will grow to 48% by 2011 based on our Government's estimate but can still be considered healthy by any standards. Our private debts, however, is estimated to be around €400 billion or 250% of GDP (thanks to our readiness to overpay our properties. The majority of these debts are mortgage related. In good times, they mean easy credits from the banks to enable you to make a quick buck. In bad times, they are holes to be filled). Japan, by comparison, had a national debt of 57% GDP and private debt of 107% GDP when the Japanese bubble burst. Japan could rely on increasing its export to a still buoyant world economy to pull herself out of the mess. It took Japan 10 years. We cannot fill that hole by increasing our exports to a paralyzed EU zone or a diminishing market in the States. (China would have provided some opportunities but we probably screwed up our relationship by refusing to twin Dublin with Beijing. Instead, we chose Barcelona, Liverpool and San José. I mean the Chinese like to have face. We didn't give them any face at all.)

    As we cannot increase our exports, the only other option to avoid mass bankruptcy is to pass all those private debts to the Government. Given our relatively healthy state of public finance and a sizable Pension Reserve Fund, we would like to think that everything will work out just fine. But wait, here is what the market is telling us:

    One reliable measure as to how foreign lenders view our ability to service our national debts is the so-called spread – rate over and above what Germany, the standard bearer of Europe, has to pay. In January 2008, the spread was 25 basis point (or 0.25%). It was good. In July 2008, it doubled to 41 basis point. It was getting worse. It widened to 46 basis point in September and further to 66 basis point in October after the advance budget. It didn't stop there. By November 2008, it became 83 basis point. And in December, 131 basis point. The message from the market is pure and simple: we are riskier than Spain and Portugal to lend money to.

    As we continue to issue more papers to cover more debts and to mortgage an increasing amount of the future earnings from our children and grandchildren, the rate will go up further. Reality, in this situation, is massive increase in taxation coupled with massive cut in public services.

    I don't know how long it will take us to hit the bottom and then recover but we should consider ourselves extremely lucky not to take as long as Japan did.

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