Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 17 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 165

Thread: HSE to slash doctors wages

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default HSE to slash doctors wages

    Just wondering what you all think of the massive paycuts that the HSE are trying to implement (quietly!) for frontline staff. Most junior doctors face a pay cut of 25%, in addition to the pension levy. This does not, of course, apply to Mr. Drumm et al. There's a decent article about it Sunday Business Post, or a fiery thread on Boards.ie.

    I'm very worried about this, the thought of working 80 hours plus a week and only getting paid for 48 of them doesn't do the morale any favours! The thing that really drives me nuts is the comments by some of the HSE staff, particulary Sean McGrath, that we seem to feel we are "entitled (!) to overtime". As if working 36 hours in a row is a thing anyone would do.

    The fact of the matter is, interns, junior doctors and the like earn in some cases twice as much as the average earner in Ireland because in some cases they are working more than two standard working weeks in any given seven days. This has a shocking effect on your personal life - the general surgical registrar might drive a Merc, but that's because on average they clock up over 90 hours in the hospital every week, and the divorce rate among general surgeons is astronomical! I'd be interested to see the time-cards for any of the HSE head honchos, and how many hours they rack up a week for their hundreds of thousands.

    Anyone any comments?

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,182
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    NOT A DOCTOR but would work within the health sector.
    I think that the junior docs are now not giong to be paid for your ONE HOUR lunch break would be hilarious,if it wasn't so absolutely ridiculous!!
    Nicking a few choccies from the nurses station on your way through is more like it!!!!

    It just shows how completely out of touch with reality the head honchos in the HSE and the DOHC are!!!
    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

    ALBERT EINSTEIN

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member FrankSpeaks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tralee
    Posts
    4,619
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    The solution seems obvious to me, employ more doctors , hence we will not have to pay as much in overtime. The patients are also likely to benefit because they are less likely to die when a coherent doctor is in charge.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    I'm very worried about this, the thought of working 80 hours plus a week and only getting paid for 48 of them doesn't do the morale any favours! The thing that really drives me nuts is the comments by some of the HSE staff, particulary Sean McGrath, that we seem to feel we are "entitled (!) to overtime". As if working 36 hours in a row is a thing anyone would do.
    Did the junior doctors not threaten to strike a few years ago because they'd get less overtime when the govt tried to implement shorter working hours for them ?

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    17,119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankSpeaks View Post
    The solution seems obvious to me, employ more doctors , hence we will not have to pay as much in overtime. The patients are also likely to benefit because they are less likely to die when a coherent doctor is in charge.
    Replace managers with doctors and nurses on a 1:2 ratio. For every two managers you let go, take on one medic.

    Cost neutral I'm guessing.
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member PhoenixIreland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    260
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spidermom View Post
    NOT A DOCTOR but would work within the health sector.
    I think that the junior docs are now not giong to be paid for your ONE HOUR lunch break would be hilarious,if it wasn't so absolutely ridiculous!!
    Nicking a few choccies from the nurses station on your way through is more like it!!!!

    It just shows how completely out of touch with reality the head honchos in the HSE and the DOHC are!!!
    Indeed, it's not as if JuniorDocs had an easy work life to begin with!
    I know how they feel, I had a private sector job last year that expected me to work 4 hours extra a week for free.

    What ever happened to the European Working Time Directive btw?? It looks like the Hospitals are just plain ignoring it?

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Man View Post
    Did the junior doctors not threaten to strike a few years ago because they'd get less overtime when the govt tried to implement shorter working hours for them ?
    I've heard this brought up a few times, and it needs adressing.

    The European Working Time Directive (EWTD) is meant to bring everyone's working hours in line, across Europe. In the medical sector, it's widely regarded as unworkable, at least under current staffing levels. Here's why.

    In order to become a consultant, i.e. the most senior person on the medical team, the person with whom all medical decisions ultimately lie and on whom blame will ultimately fall if something goes wrong, you need to have a certain skill level. The only way to do this is to see patients, in your chosen speciality, time and time again until you've seen each of the dozen ways a given condition can present, a hundred times over. This takes years and years. The only way we can conclusively say that Dr. Grizzly is fine in the management of your mother with a Heart Attack is if he or she goes through this long and ardous training process. This is part of the reason why it takes about 10 years (give or take) to make consultant, and also part of the reason why the majority of people in any given medical school class end up doing GP (which is a 4 year training programme).

    Similarly with surgery - if you're going to be a heart surgeon, you need to have clocked up many hundreds of heart procedures before you're deemed competent. This takes many thousands of hours in the operating theatre. You also need to get good at the management of acute medical emergencies, and slowly but surely gain confidence at managing them on your own, before you move up to the next level, e.g. Reg to SHO. This largely happens on call, i.e. when the consultant is gone home for the night.

    The problem with the EWTD is that (especially in areas like surgery) it will cut the hours doctors spend in hospital, by about half for some surgeons (a speciality in which trainees routinely work 100-hour weeks in the hospital). This means that either (A) training will take twice as long, and people will be lucky to make consultant by the time they're 45, not 35; or (B) training will last the same length and standards will suffer immensely.

    This is why most surgical trainees would be happy to opt out of the EWTD if they could, and indeed this is under serious consideration in Europe.

    So you see, it's a catch 22. Do I want to work 80 hour weeks next year? Not if I can help it. But would I feel confident being in charge of patients on my own the year after, knowing I'd received about 40% less on-call (i.e. training) time than others? Absolutely not, and I don't think you'd want me looking after your relatives either.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    26,072
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    [QUOTE=He3;1418231]Replace managers with doctors and nurses on a 1:2 ratio. For every two managers you let go, take on one medic.

    Cost neutral I'm guessing.[/QUOTE

    One sure thing the patients would be better off.but i guess that does not matter.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I also forgot to mention about the EWTD in Ireland. There were a few pilot schemes a few years ago, in Galway among other places, implemented by the HSE but they fell apart and it was classified unworkable, as it has been in many other countries. Now all of a sudden, the HSE want to 'cut costs', so suddenly it's all "we want to comply with this directive that we didn't give a rats arse about a year ago, but do now because it's politically convenient".

    (This is despite the fact that the HSE was created from the amalgamation of the health boards a few years ago, to make the health service 'more efficient', but no jobs have since been shed in the administration of this newly-efficient organisation).

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    17,119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Howdya Spell Efficiency?
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

Page 1 of 17 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •