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Thread: Collins: Would he be a member of Fianna Fail

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    Default Collins: Would he be a member of Fianna Fail

    I was just thinking about this at the weekend. i think Collins had he lived would have join FF upon it formation. I'll really don't think he's really an FG icon at all. Had he not gone to London to negotiate the treaty he probably would have been on the anti-treaty side.

    So what do FFer's on Politics.ie think?
    Is he really ours and should we reclaim him?
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    You people are a scream!
    Talk about pick and mix version of history! Is this the sort of comfort blanket you develop when you take a whipping in two by-elections?

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    Politics.ie Member Simbo67's Avatar
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    Good God, the by-election results must be really getting to you!
    I was at a Michael Collins commeration last week (a very wonderful evening) and a documentary that they showed would destroy any wishful thinking that you might have about Collins being an irregular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simbo67
    Good God, the by-election results must be really getting to you!
    I was at a Michael Collins commeration last week (a very wonderful evening) and a documentary that they showed would destroy any wishful thinking that you might have about Collins being an irregular.
    Probably an Eoghan Harris/Dessie O'Malley documentary?

    Things would have been very different had Collins lived and DeValera would certainly not have had the impact on the Irish state that he had. And we would not have had that fscking Peig sh1te to put up with for the Leaving Cert (when I did it) and the Irish language would probably be healthier today.

    Regards...jmcc
    Regards...jmcc

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    Politics.ie Member agora's Avatar
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    Who knows, if Dev hadn't been around to mess things up (by the standards of the time he should have been shot for his behaviour, people were for much less), Collins might even have brought us to a United Ireland. Blinkered republicans always go on about Collins being a traitor, but if he had lived he probably would have had a better chance of building relations with the North up to the point of unity than Dev, who in concrete terms never did anything for the cause of unity.
    "Partout où la liberté règne elle est incessamment attaquée et très souvent en péril” – Jean Jacques Rousseau.

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    For God's sake,how do people come up with such theories?When Dev and Collins split over the treaty Irish politics was changed thereafter.

    Dev may have eventually come around to Collins way of thinking by the time he set up FF,but that alone would hardly prompt Collins to switch over and join a party that came from people who believed he was a traitor and who had actively tried to assasinate him.Had Collins lived,I do believe that the Civil war wouldn't have been as bitter and that Dev would have either stayed with SF, founded a less successful party than FF or he perhaps would have ended up joining C na nG under the only man who could unite the two factions -Collins
    Ceann C

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    I'd agree with Collinsite's argument.
    The question is less about

    "Would he have joined FF?"

    and more about

    "Would FF exist/ever have existed if Collins had lived?"

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    Politics.ie Member rockofcashel's Avatar
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    Mick Collins would most likely be a member of the only party he was ever a member of

    Sinn Fein


    Lets compare him to modern day Sinn Fein leaders....

    Highly successful IRA leader ... a la Martin Mc Guiness

    Chief negotiator for a United Ireland .... a la Martin Mc Guinness

    Argued for a tactical use of armed strategy ... a la Martin Mc Guinness

    Was a successful Minister (Finance) ..... a la Martin Mc Guiness (Education)

    Never gave up the ultimate goal of a United Ireland .... a la Martin Mc Guiness

    Was deferential to a more charismatic politician (Dev) ... a la Martin Mc Guiness (with both having more respect amongst the armed wings of their respective movements)


    Mick Collins - Once a Shinner, always a Shinner.......

    As for the tentative links with FG that FG seem delighted to claim, can some FG explain what Collins would think of

    1. John Bruton describing the visit of Prince Charles as the happiest day of his life (Collins would've wanted to shoot him)

    or

    2. Gay Mitchells condemnation of the IRA, when Collins was not only the head of intelligence of the IRA, but was a member of the more secretive, and violent IRB
    1,197 people agree with me.. how many agree with you ?

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    Lets compare him to modern day Sinn Fein leaders....
    Highly successful IRA leader ... a la Martin Mc Guiness
    Chief negotiator for a United Ireland .... a la Martin Mc Guinness
    Argued for a tactical use of armed strategy ... a la Martin Mc Guinness
    Was a successful Minister (Finance) ..... a la Martin Mc Guiness (Education)
    Never gave up the ultimate goal of a United Ireland .... a la Martin Mc Guiness
    Was deferential to a more charismatic politician (Dev) ... a la Martin Mc Guiness (with both having more respect amongst the armed wings of their respective movements)
    Mick Collins - Once a Shinner, always a Shinner.......
    All true, except that Collins said he would support the Treaty if the electorate voted for it, and reject it if the electorate voted against it. I'd imagine Martin McGuinness wouldn't have given much thought to what percentage of the population was for or against the Treaty, and would have sided with the Irregulars on principle grounds

    That's why you can't compare the Sinn Fein of the Troubles with the Sinn Fein of 1905-1922: the former didn't care about the will of the People whereas the latter (arguably) did.

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    IS McGuinness pro-treaty aswell?

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