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Thread: Why the widespread condemnation of Israel?

  1. #1
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    Default Why the widespread condemnation of Israel?

    Some wonder at the strength of condemnation of Israelís actions in Gaza. It is simple and complex. The one misconception to be laid to rest is that it has anything to do with anti-Semitism. The majority of people who do condemn Israelís actions do not care one way or the other about what religion Israelis hold, it is irrelevant.

    Israel declares itself a democratic State. A civilised State. A State that holds itself up as a shining example of a civilised, democratic State to other State/Nations. Particularly to the neighbouring States.

    Democracy has been evolving from the limited type of democracy they set up to the fuller democracy practised in most States that developed from European stock.
    People have an understanding of what constitutes a democratic State.

    People have an understanding of what constitutes a civilised State. This concept of civilisation has developed over the centuries to what is now known as civilised. They think that this is a good way for a State to behave.

    What people are seeing happening in Gaza goes against all of what they know and accept as civilised behaviour for a State. They feel lied to by Israel. That is why Israel has lost respect in the eyes of the people around the world, why Israel has lost standing in the eyes of people. People expected more that that from Israel, they expected Israel to behave in a civilised manner in the treatment of the people in Gaza. Not just in the case of the past 20 days of conflict but the past 20 years.

    I make no mention of Hamas in that because, even though Hamas won the elections in Gaza, they are not recognised as a Government, nor is Gaza recognised as a State. Not being a State, they are not held to as high an expected standard as Israel is expected to hold.
    (because there will be erroneous assumptions made)
    The idea of Hamas not being held to the same high standards as Israel is not the same as saying that
    Hamas has the right to rocket Israelis. Standards of behaviour do apply to Hamas, which, in their social service structure, do fulfil as well as they can in the circumstances.



    I would appreciate it if the moderators did not lock this.
    The enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy. EU Army coming to be, the feckin' conspiracy nuts on Lisbon were right on this one.

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    The funny thing is that it's so easy for the rest of us to judge Israel as no other country has to live under the conditions of Israel. The nearest is the UK or Spain with some home grown terrorism and while the IRA and ETA are terrorist Arab apologists argue that Hamas or Fatah are freedom fighters or resistance fighters - they are gold old fashioned terrorist scum - as low as ETA or the IRA.

    Hamas use women and children as human sheilds - the IRA used to knee cap people or make them 'disappear' and also used human shields.

    The same people who say the US and the 'evil' Bush - who it might be remembered has just handed over power peacefully to a man who is the total opposite of him, now that's real democary - are banking Israel blah blah are the same people who listen to US music or movies etc and then say oh we just don't like the President but we like the US people but never say oh we don't like what the IDF is doing but we like Israelis.

    When the UK was facing attacks from the IRA it didn't take it lying down it fougth back as does Spain so why should the Israeli government take attacks from Hamas lying down.

  3. #3

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    There is no other rational explanation for the vitriol shown towards the Israelis and the bonhommie shown towards Hamas. It is simply antiSemitism. Hatred of Jews.

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    It's not anti-semitism. It's because the Palestinians are being treated as we were treated by Cromwell and the Irish will always side with oppressed people, especially when they are illegally-occupied as the Palestinians are under UN Security Council Resolution 242. The settlements recall in the Irish psyche the Plantations of the 17th century which led to the northern Troubles and partition. As far as Western opinion is concerned, there is much more outrage in countries like Germany than you would think from listening to their pro-Israeli govts. Polls confirm this. Even in the US,support for Israel's actions is only 44-41 in there, despite the unanimous and slavish AIPAC dictated support from Congress and Bush. As the sole remaining Western colonial-power, Israel has marked itself out as the black sheep of the Western-family. But the continued disasterous support from America will no doubt sweeten that pill

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    Politics.ie Member wombat's Avatar
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    FT - are you mad, drunk or smoking? Read what you have just written, its not even coherent - I suppose some of your best friends are Jews?
    Beer is proof that God loves us - Benjamin Franklin

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    Politics.ie Member southwestkerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    It's not anti-semitism. It's because the Palestinians are being treated as we were treated by Cromwell and the Irish will always side with oppressed people, especially when they are illegally-occupied as the Palestinians are under UN Security Council Resolution 242. The settlements recall in the Irish psyche the Plantations of the 17th century which led to the northern Troubles and partition. As far as Western opinion is concerned, there is much more outrage in countries like Germany than you would think from listening to their pro-Israeli govts. Polls confirm this. Even in the US,support for Israel's actions is only 44-41 in there, despite the unanimous and slavish AIPAC dictated support from Congress and Bush. As the sole remaining Western colonial-power, Israel has marked itself out as the black sheep of the Western-family. But the continued disasterous support from America will no doubt sweeten that pill
    If a national poll was conducted do you realy think every one would go along with what you claim.
    A ship at harbour is safe but that is not what ships were built for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    It's not anti-semitism. It's because the Palestinians are being treated as we were treated by Cromwell and the Irish will always side with oppressed people, especially when they are illegally-occupied as the Palestinians are under UN Security Council Resolution 242. The settlements recall in the Irish psyche the Plantations of the 17th century which led to the northern Troubles and partition. As far as Western opinion is concerned, there is much more outrage in countries like Germany than you would think from listening to their pro-Israeli govts. Polls confirm this. Even in the US,support for Israel's actions is only 44-41 in there, despite the unanimous and slavish AIPAC dictated support from Congress and Bush. As the sole remaining Western colonial-power, Israel has marked itself out as the black sheep of the Western-family. But the continued disasterous support from America will no doubt sweeten that pill

    Israel is not in the "Western family" - its a middle eastern country.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    It's not anti-semitism. It's because the Palestinians are being treated as we were treated by Cromwell and the Irish will always side with oppressed people, especially when they are illegally-occupied as the Palestinians are under UN Security Council Resolution 242. The settlements recall in the Irish psyche the Plantations of the 17th century which led to the northern Troubles and partition. As far as Western opinion is concerned, there is much more outrage in countries like Germany than you would think from listening to their pro-Israeli govts. Polls confirm this. Even in the US,support for Israel's actions is only 44-41 in there, despite the unanimous and slavish AIPAC dictated support from Congress and Bush. As the sole remaining Western colonial-power, Israel has marked itself out as the black sheep of the Western-family. But the continued disasterous support from America will no doubt sweeten that pill

    Isn't Hamas immediate objective the destruction of the state of Israel. A nation of over 7 million citizens. Then as Islamic fundamentalists , their ultimate objective, like Hezbollah and their pay master general, Iran, is the destruction of decadent Western Civillisation and its replacement with the Muslim caliphate within a muslim state.
    How can you negotiate with that.

  9. #9

    Default "The Israelis just released their dogs at their bodies,

    and the good book says

    15. "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." -- .9boda Sarah 37a.
    17. "A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat." --Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan 9ruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348.
    35. "The Jews are strictly Forbidden to cheat their brothers and it is considered cheating already if onesixth of the value has been taken away from him. Whoever has cheated his brother has to return it to him. Naturally all that only holds towards the Jew, to cheat a goy he is permitted and he is not permitted to return to him what he cheated him out of. Because the Bible says: 'Thou shalt not cheat thy next brother,' but the non-Jews are not our brethren, but as mentioned above, worse than dogs." -- aruch hoszen Haniszpat 227.


    Killed by Israel, Eaten by Dogs
    Ola Attallah, IOL Correspondent

    Jan 15, 2009

    GAZA CITY - "Oh, God! I have never seen such a terrible scene," cried Kayed Abu Aukal.

    The emergency doctor could not believe himself seeing the remains of what was days back Shahd, a full-fleshed 4-year-old Palestinian girl.

    She died when an Israeli shell was fired at the backyard of her home in the Jabalya refugee camp northern Gaza strip, where she was playing.

    When her parents attempted to rush to the rescue of their kid, who fell to the ground amid a pool of her blood, rains of Israeli bullets kept them a distance.

    For the next five days Shahd's which was left lying in the open left for dogs to tear out.

    "The dogs did leave one single part of the poor baby's body intact," said a tearful Abu Aukal.

    "We have seen heart-breaking scenes over the past 18 days. We picked up children whose bodies were torn or burnt, but nothing like this."

    For five days Shahd's brother, Matar, and cousin, Mohamed, tried in vain to reach her body. They were fired at by the Israeli occupation forces every time.

    Seeing the body of the little angel torn to piece by the assaulting dogs, the two made one final attempt, and it was their last.

    They were showered by Israeli bullets before they could reach Shahd's body, joining a long list of more than 920 Palestinians killed by Israel since December 27.

    Deliberate

    Omran Zayda, a young neighbor, said the Israelis knew very well what they were doing.

    "They chased her family and prevented them from reaching to her body, knowing that the dogs would eat it," he said.

    "They are not just killing our children, they are intentionally doing so in the most heinous and inhuman ways."

    Zayda said words, and even cameras, can not describe the horrific scene.

    "You can never imagine what the dogs have done to her innocent body," he said, fighting back his tears.

    Many Palestinians insist Shahd was not the first or only such case.

    In Jabalya, when Abd Rabu's family was trying to bury three of its dead, the Israeli forces started firing at them, witnesses said.

    They then released their dogs at the bodies, deserted by mourners who sought shelter from the Israeli gunfire, they added.

    "What happened was awful and unthinkable," Saad Abd Rabu, the deceased uncle, told IOL.

    "Our sons died before our eyes and we were even prevented from burying them," he cried.

    "The Israelis just released their dogs at their bodies, as even they have not done enough."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Earl of Desmond View Post
    The funny thing is that it's so easy for the rest of us to judge Israel as no other country has to live under the conditions of Israel. The nearest is the UK or Spain with some home grown terrorism and while the IRA and ETA are terrorist Arab apologists argue that Hamas or Fatah are freedom fighters or resistance fighters - they are gold old fashioned terrorist scum - as low as ETA or the IRA.

    Hamas use women and children as human sheilds - the IRA used to knee cap people or make them 'disappear' and also used human shields.

    The same people who say the US and the 'evil' Bush - who it might be remembered has just handed over power peacefully to a man who is the total opposite of him, now that's real democary - are banking Israel blah blah are the same people who listen to US music or movies etc and then say oh we just don't like the President but we like the US people but never say oh we don't like what the IDF is doing but we like Israelis.

    When the UK was facing attacks from the IRA it didn't take it lying down it fougth back as does Spain so why should the Israeli government take attacks from Hamas lying down.
    There are so many levels of innate stupidity in your post that it's hard to know where to start. Suffice to say that you were an organiser for Fine Gael in North Dublin about 20 years ago, they ran you out, you legged it and now live in London (where your heart really belongs, Fitzer).

    Read Talcott Parsons. He was what we would today call a raging neo-con. You exemplify his pre-ordained tenets of belief in everything that upholds aristocratic power. The only reason you're one of the few on this website who try to uphold that position is because most of those you aspire to be like couldn't be arsed posting on a website.
    Racism = fear, low self-esteem and breath-taking ignorance.

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