Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 22 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 220

Thread: The radical left and Islamism (The enemy of my enemy is my friend)

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    10,192
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default The radical left and Islamism (The enemy of my enemy is my friend)

    Hello. Before this get's modded into "Foreign Affairs" I would like to say that this is very much not about the recent Israeli incursion into Gaza. (It is perhaps worth mentioning that I regret the fact that it couldn't be so classified). And, given the recent noise, please take that to mean an open invitation not to bring Israel into this.

    No, it’s not about any particular incident but rather about the strange alliance that appears to exist between Islamists and the radical left. The kind of association I am talking about is perhaps best exemplified (in the UK) by Ken Livingstone and George Galloway.

    In a thesis, popularised by Nick Cohen the left seem to be following "the enemy of my enemy..." notion such that, "What is new is that since the death of socialism, they are prepared to indulge the extreme religious right as long as it is anti-American. The reflex is essentially the same, as is the delusion that these are in some way 'progressive' forces."

    Please, I don't for a moment want to suggest that a great majority of people who protested in Dublin did so for any other reasons other than expressing dismay at the killing of innocents.

    That said, given a) the propensity for the far left to associate themselves heavily with the recent anti-war demonstrations (e.g. Sinn Fein) and b) the propensity of these same demonstrations to take on overtly religious and islamist overtones (Cries of Allahu Akbar!) is the same thing happening in Ireland?

    If this is hogwash, doesn't the overt presence of Islamist (read: Racist, misogynist, homophobic, totalitarian, inquisitional, imperialist, and genocidal) sentiment at these rallies give pause for thought? If it doesn't why not? Doesn't Islamism overtly stand for everything the Left doesn't?

    Particularly interested in mainstream/centre left point of view. Please forgive the temerity of this first (almost*) time poster but I am particularly not interested in debating semantics with people who delight in deconstructing sentences and avoiding the main thrust of the argumnet.


    Cheers,

    - Kev.

    *I was on the site a couple of years back with the same name but lost the log in
    Last edited by Kevin Parlon; 13th January 2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Grammar

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    17,119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    The aftermath of the Iranian Revolution is relevant here.

    (Explored through a child's eyes in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PXHeKuBzPY)
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member Akrasia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    in Toxicated
    Posts
    1,128
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    'The Radical left' as you put it are not in favour of a totalitarian islamic theocracy. There are some groups (like the SWP) who use every opportunity to self promote and will get in bed with anyone if they think it will get them more members, but over all, the vast majority of activists are anti imperialists and are against the Israeli violence because it is indiscriminate collective punishment. It is domination of the weak by the strong.

    The Left are also against abusing and torturing prisoners incarcarated in jails, not because we support rapists and murderers or because we consider them to be allies or 'friends' but because abusing positions of power to cause unnecessary severe harm for one's own perverse gain is quite simply wrong.
    Actual morality is doing what is right regardless of what you're told. Religious morality is doing what you're told, regardless of if it's right.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    102
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Shopuld the left ignore injustice just because others are against it too?
    Sovereignty is Democracy

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacCoise View Post
    Shopuld the left ignore injustice just because others are against it too?
    No.

    All war crimes should be denounced!

    An Extraordinary Story.

  6. #6

    Default

    another thread about uk politics
    If I ask a question don't just 'like' the post, reply to it. - If I post a lot about a subject I may write a post about it at http://dublinstreams.blogspot.ie/

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member DeathKnell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Galway West
    Posts
    443
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Hello. Before this get's modded into "Foreign Affairs" I would like to say that this is very much not about the recent Israeli incursion into Gaza. (It is perhaps worth mentioning that I regret the fact that it couldn't be so classified). And, given the recent noise, please take that to mean an open invitation not to bring Israel into this.

    No, it’s not about any particular incident but rather about the strange alliance that appears to exist between Islamists and the radical left. The kind of association I am talking about is perhaps best exemplified (in the UK) by Ken Livingstone and George Galloway.

    In a thesis, popularised by Nick Cohen the left seem to be following "the enemy of my enemy..." notion such that, "What is new is that since the death of socialism, they are prepared to indulge the extreme religious right as long as it is anti-American. The reflex is essentially the same, as is the delusion that these are in some way 'progressive' forces."

    Please, I don't for a moment want to suggest that a great majority of people who protested in Dublin did so for any other reasons other than expressing dismay at the killing of innocents.

    That said, given a) the propensity for the far left to associate themselves heavily with the recent anti-war demonstrations (e.g. Sinn Fein) and b) the propensity of these same demonstrations to take on overtly religious and islamist overtones (Cries of Allahu Akbar!) is the same thing happening in Ireland?

    If this is hogwash, doesn't the overt presence of Islamist (read: Racist, misogynist, homophobic, totalitarian, inquisitional, imperialist, and genocidal) sentiment at these rallies give pause for thought? If it doesn't why not? Doesn't Islamism overtly stand for everything the Left doesn't?

    Particularly interested in mainstream/centre left point of view. Please forgive the temerity of this first (almost*) time poster but I am particularly not interested in debating semantics with people who delight in deconstructing sentences and avoiding the main thrust of the argumnet.


    Cheers,

    - Kev.

    *I was on the site a couple of years back with the same name but lost the log in

    I agree with the thrust of your arguments.. The left get into bed with some very strange bedfellows. The Antagonism seems to be directed in the main with anything to do with America - Globalism - Israel.. The arguments get lost and tiresome and shrill with every tenuous connection 'with the great satan' as they get more and more indignantly righteous. The brow beating of anyone and classification with an 'ism' of some description is particularly galling. Socialism as practised in these cold wet Islands is preoccupied with pidgeon holing people, classification into Pro US, anti US, good and evil, left and right.. in the main I find people of vociferously left nature to be pompous hypocratic and usually well off, kvnts ..
    I have opinions of people on the neo-con right as well but thats a different thread.
    Originally Posted by The Red Rose of Cork
    I dont care about "the majority of people"

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    10,192
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacCoise View Post
    Shopuld the left ignore injustice just because others are against it too?
    No, but that wasn't the question I was trying to pose.
    "It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them." - Thomas Sowell

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    10,192
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lostexpectation View Post
    another thread about uk politics
    I'm sorry, I thought it was clear enough that this question was about the Left in Ireland.
    "It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them." - Thomas Sowell

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    27,938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I took part in a recent demo, and i would like a definition of "left" before labelling myself.
    I'm anti Imperialist, anti abortion in some cases , pro death penalty in some cases,support gay civil unions but not adoptions, support social welfare but not for everyone, support the rights of refugees but not economic migrants, and so on.
    Did you ever think that maybe the Irish people empathise with the people of Gaza as they are disgusted by the images and also the inaction of the West. That they also empathise with an occupied people. This has ******************** all with right wing or left wing. Right wing elements supported the Taliban against the Russians. now that was political opportunism in the 1st degree.

Page 1 of 22 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •