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Thread: That is a Catholic

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    Politics.ie Member Almanac's Avatar
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    Default That is a Catholic

    Why speak about the nature of Catholicism on a politics website? Not because of the lasting contribution to political history and philosophy made by Catholic figures as diverse as Charlemagne, Augustine, Aquinas, Maritain, or Schumann. Neither because of the invaluable contribution to the human traffic of ideas that Catholic Social Theory or other streams of Catholic thought represent. Simply, here, because some elements, through repeated use of word and image, are attempting to project an utterly false picture of the Church and Catholicism. According to this ideology, repeated ad nauseam, the Church is an evil organisation, run by corrupt power-hungry and avaricious clerics; it is populated by 'paedophile priests' and exercises a pernicious and malevolent influence on society; hence the loss of its influence and authority is something to be welcomed (and even celebrated). These sections may give a token nod to the 'good individual Catholics out there' but this should be recognised for what it is: a cynical rhetorical manoeuvre designed to disarm people in order to render them more receptive to the attacks by generating the illusion that they are really being fair-minded, balanced and objective. They are not. They are disseminating prejudice and bigotry and subtly fomenting hatred.

    They give examples of people who have committed evil and say, “This is Catholicism.” As if Catholicism itself generates evil. The fact that the evil in these individuals comes from within themselves and has nothing at all to do with the Catholic Faith other than to manifest their betrayal of it seems to escape those only interested in discharging bigotry and promoting prejudice.

    What then is Catholicism? What is a Catholic?

    A Catholic is the young woman who spotted an old man lying on the side of an Indian street. Covered in sores and in a state of complete wretchedness, this man had been abandoned and left to die like an animal for he was an “untouchable”. The young woman held him before bringing him home where she began to clean and care for him. Astounded by this, the man looked up and asked, “Why are you doing this?” Mother Teresa replied, “Because I love you.” That love would flow outwards and would eventually form a community that would transform the lives of hundreds of thousands of the “poorest of the poor”, of the most rejected, the hated, the disease-ridden, the “untouchables”.

    That is a Catholic.

    At the height of World War II, one now largely forgotten Irish priest based in occupied Italy saved thousands of Jews, soldiers and refugees of all kinds from certain death by hiding them in monasteries and convents, in Catholic colleges, in his own residence and in a network of apartments. He provided them with food, clothing and money and, if he could procure them, false papers to escape. Working with other priests, nuns, resistance agents and even communists he initiated and spearheaded ‘The Organisation’ a massive rescue campaign. He concealed over 4000 escapees. When the SS found out that he was a priest operating through the Vatican, they made several attempts to assassinate him. When the war ended this priest also ensured that German prisoners of war were treated properly. In 1948 the former SS Obersturmbannfuhrer, Herbert Kappler, the SS chief in Rome, was sentenced to life imprisonment for crimes against humanity. Only one man came to visit him: his hated former arch enemy, Msgr Hugh O Flaherty. For ten years Msgr O Flaherty came to visit him every month and spoke to him about the Christian Faith. As the effects of the Nazi ideology gradually wore off, Kappler began to remember his childhood belief in Christianity. In 1959 Kappler was baptised into the Catholic Faith. After saving thousands from his grasp, O Flaherty had saved Kappler himself.

    Msgr O Flaherty, too, is a Catholic.

    After living out decades of extreme, but joyfully assumed, hardship ministering to the Huron Indians, John Brebeuf, a French missionary to North America, was captured along with others by hostile Iroquois Mohawks. Brebeuf was first stripped naked and beaten all over. Then a hatchet heated in a fire was applied to his armpit and against the insides of his legs. A necklace of red-hot lance blades was placed around his neck. Then they girdled a belt of bark and resin around his waist and set it alight. Brebeuf’s face was set like a rock throughout. But suddenly, seized by spiritual exaltation, he began to preach to his captors urging them to convert and he also encouraged his fellow captors, who were suffering similar tortures. Enraged, the Iroquois Indians tore off his lips and cut off his nose. In derision of baptism they scalped him and poured boiling water over his head. Finally they cut out his heart... In the seminary, they had wondered whether Brebeuf might be too sickly to endure the rigours of the religious life. After his death, the Mohawks drank his blood, hoping to absorb his enormous strength. But Brebeuf’s strength came from Christ.

    Brebeuf, too, is a Catholic.
    What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his own soul?

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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    Is this a series?

    How soon before you get to Archbishop Marcinkus?

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    Politics.ie Member Andrew49's Avatar
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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    Now THIS man is a man who cares:
    When he learned that one of his priests was preying on teenage girls, Bishop Matthew F. Brady of Manchester, N.H., yanked the man out of ministry. Then he wrote letter after letter -- at least 15 in all -- warning other bishops not to let the priest back into parish work. Considering how many Roman Catholic bishops have quietly transferred sexual abusers to new parishes, Brady's stand was notable. But what's really startling is the year he took it: 1957.

    Brady's letters are among 9,000 pages of documents made public by New Hampshire's attorney general at the end of a grand jury investigation. The correspondence makes clear that sexual abuse by priests did not begin with the "sexual revolution" in American life in the 1960s, as some Catholics have maintained. By the 1950s, the New Hampshire files show, U.S. bishops had a lot of experience with the problem.

    But the Brady documents reveal much more. They contain evidence,That also disprove the contention that church leaders were unaware until recently that pedophilia is difficult, if not impossible, to cure. The advice Brady received from the nation's first treatment center for troubled priests, Via Coeli in Jemez Springs, N.M., was that priests who had molested minors were unlikely to change. "We have adopted a definite policy not to recommend to Bishops men of this character," Via Coeli's founder, the Rev. Gerald Fitzgerald, informed Brady in September 1957. "We feel that the protection of our glorious priesthood will demand, in time, the establishment of a uniform code of discipline and of penalties. We are amazed to find how often a man who would be behind bars if he were not a priest is entrusted with the cura animarum care of souls."

    David Clohessy, executive director of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said he has seen no evidence that other bishops in the '50s acted as Brady did. "From the victims I've spoken to and the cases I know about, the general attitude back then was that [sexual abuse] was a moral failing, a sin that someone could just renounce," he said.
    I watched with glee, while your kings and queens, fought for ten decades for the gods they made.

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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    Don't forget Pope Alexander VI! Now that was a Catholic!

    And Innocent III - not so innocent.

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    Politics.ie Member Oppenheimer's Avatar
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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    So what's this then.... wait'll Bock gets you! http://bocktherobber.com/2006/10/mother ... -the-crook
    We are "they"

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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    Other notable catholics:
    Franco
    Hitler
    Mussolini
    Tariq Aziz (A Chaldean Catholic)
    Myra Hindley
    and any number of IRA nutbars (not intended in any way to besmirch the nice honest IRA members)

    So, among the one billion catholics, there are some bad and some good.
    Your point?
    If there is a future, it will be Green.

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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    This is not unique to the RC Church,. I have had various dealingas with the Salvation army & the same cover-up mentality exists there.
    "If the Germans land in Ireland they will be welcomed as liberators".

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    Politics.ie Member Andrew49's Avatar
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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    I watched with glee, while your kings and queens, fought for ten decades for the gods they made.

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    Politics.ie Member the_Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac
    Why speak about the nature of Catholicism on a politics website?
    Because we are still trying to untangle our politics and education from the catholic infestation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac
    Not because of the lasting contribution to political history and philosophy made by Catholic figures as diverse as Charlemagne, Augustine, Aquinas, Maritain, or Schumann. Neither because of the invaluable contribution to the human traffic of ideas that Catholic Social Theory or other streams of Catholic thought represent.
    Catholic social theory and thought was at best worthless and at worse repressive. Taking our modern 21st century liberal ethics as a yardstick, we find that the vast majority of the religious have been wrong on every issue. They were wrong on slavery, wrong on women's rights, wrong on democracy, wrong on science, wrong on freedom of speech, wrong on divorce, wrong on medical ethics. I cannot think of a single relevant ethical issue considered more or less solved today that was not achieved despite the best efforts of the majority of religious authorities. As a single, self contained clearly delimited organization, their record is appalling. The church is not even competent at dealing with christian theology (purgatory, Eucharist, infallibility etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac
    Simply, here, because some elements, through repeated use of word and image, are attempting to project an utterly false picture of the Church and Catholicism. According to this ideology, repeated ad nauseam, the Church is an evil organisation, run by corrupt power-hungry and avaricious clerics; it is populated by 'paedophile priests' and exercises a pernicious and malevolent influence on society; hence the loss of its influence and authority is something to be welcomed (and even celebrated).
    Even before the reformation the church was not *as* corrupt as Martin Luther claimed. It is however repressive and just plain wrong on every issue that matters to me. Obviously I welcome its continued decline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac
    These sections may give a token nod to the 'good individual Catholics out there' but this should be recognised for what it is: a cynical rhetorical manoeuvre designed to disarm people in order to render them more receptive to the attacks by generating the illusion that they are really being fair-minded, balanced and objective. They are not. They are disseminating prejudice and bigotry and subtly fomenting hatred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac
    They give examples of people who have committed evil and say, “This is Catholicism.” As if Catholicism itself generates evil. The fact that the evil in these individuals comes from within themselves and has nothing at all to do with the Catholic Faith other than to manifest their betrayal of it seems to escape those only interested in discharging bigotry and promoting prejudice.
    Any system which privileges the irrational whims of a nominally celebrate man wearing a dress is evil as it is anti-life, anti-reason and anti-human.


    Quote Originally Posted by Almanac
    What then is Catholicism? What is a Catholic?

    A Catholic is the young woman who spotted an old man lying on the side of an Indian street. Covered in sores and in a state of complete wretchedness, this man had been abandoned and left to die like an animal for he was an “untouchable”. The young woman held him before bringing him home where she began to clean and care for him. Astounded by this, the man looked up and asked, “Why are you doing this?” Mother Teresa replied, “Because I love you.” That love would flow outwards and would eventually form a community that would transform the lives of hundreds of thousands of the “poorest of the poor”, of the most rejected, the hated, the disease-ridden, the “untouchables”.

    That is a Catholic.

    At the height of World War II, one now largely forgotten Irish priest based in occupied Italy saved thousands of Jews, soldiers and refugees of all kinds from certain death by hiding them in monasteries and convents, in Catholic colleges, in his own residence and in a network of apartments. He provided them with food, clothing and money and, if he could procure them, false papers to escape. Working with other priests, nuns, resistance agents and even communists he initiated and spearheaded ‘The Organisation’ a massive rescue campaign. He concealed over 4000 escapees. When the SS found out that he was a priest operating through the Vatican, they made several attempts to assassinate him. When the war ended this priest also ensured that German prisoners of war were treated properly. In 1948 the former SS Obersturmbannfuhrer, Herbert Kappler, the SS chief in Rome, was sentenced to life imprisonment for crimes against humanity. Only one man came to visit him: his hated former arch enemy, Msgr Hugh O Flaherty. For ten years Msgr O Flaherty came to visit him every month and spoke to him about the Christian Faith. As the effects of the Nazi ideology gradually wore off, Kappler began to remember his childhood belief in Christianity. In 1959 Kappler was baptised into the Catholic Faith. After saving thousands from his grasp, O Flaherty had saved Kappler himself.

    Msgr O Flaherty, too, is a Catholic.

    After living out decades of extreme, but joyfully assumed, hardship ministering to the Huron Indians, John Brebeuf, a French missionary to North America, was captured along with others by hostile Iroquois Mohawks. Brebeuf was first stripped naked and beaten all over. Then a hatchet heated in a fire was applied to his armpit and against the insides of his legs. A necklace of red-hot lance blades was placed around his neck. Then they girdled a belt of bark and resin around his waist and set it alight. Brebeuf’s face was set like a rock throughout. But suddenly, seized by spiritual exaltation, he began to preach to his captors urging them to convert and he also encouraged his fellow captors, who were suffering similar tortures. Enraged, the Iroquois Indians tore off his lips and cut off his nose. In derision of baptism they scalped him and poured boiling water over his head. Finally they cut out his heart... In the seminary, they had wondered whether Brebeuf might be too sickly to endure the rigours of the religious life. After his death, the Mohawks drank his blood, hoping to absorb his enormous strength. But Brebeuf’s strength came from Christ.

    Brebeuf, too, is a Catholic.
    Whoop de do. Anybody doing the right thing for the wrong reason (ie a priest told me god wanted me to do it or I did it for jesus) is dangerous. They are dangerous because they give validation to the entire range of catholic woohoo and because of this we should not tolerate even moderate thesistards.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Default Re: That is a Catholic

    It's like wrestling with pigs, Almanac, don't know why you bother. You have your faith and they have their slurry.

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