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Thread: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

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    Politics.ie Member mr_anderson's Avatar
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    Default Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    As we all know, if you do the leaving cert through Irish, you are entitled to an extra 10%.

    Without getting into a pro or anti Irish language thread (we have more than enough of those), I am wondering would this stand up to a legal challange ?
    In my own eyes it would appear to be blatant discrimination as you dont get extra for doing it through any other language.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson
    As we all know, if you do the leaving cert through Irish, you are entitled to an extra 10%.

    Without getting into a pro or anti Irish language thread (we have more than enough of those), I am wondering would this stand up to a legal challange ?
    In my own eyes it would appear to be blatant discrimination as you dont get extra for doing it through any other language.
    Its actually worse than that. Here is the regulation from the State Exam Commission
    Bonus marks at the rate of 10 per cent of the marks obtained will be given to a candidate who obtains less than 75 per cent of the total marks in the case of the following subjects:- Latin, Greek, Classical Studies, Hebrew Studies, History, Geography, Physics, Chemistry, Physics and Chemistry, Biology, Science, Business, Economics, Economic History, Agricultural Science, Agricultural Economics, Home Economics, Music, Business Studies, History and Appreciation of Art, Civic, Social and Political Education, Religious Education, Arabic, LCVP Link Modules - written component only.

    Bonus marks at the rate of 5 per cent will be given to a candidate who obtains less than 75 per cent of the total marks in the case of the following subjects:- French, German, Italian, Spanish, Mathematics, Applied Mathematics, Accounting, Engineering, Construction Studies, Materials Technology (Wood), Metalwork, Technology, Typewriting, Russian, Japanese.

    Bonus marks at the rate of 3 per cent will be given to a candidate who obtains less than 75 per cent of the total marks in the case of the subject Art, Craft, Design (Junior Certificate).

    Above 75 per cent the bonus will be subjected to a uniform reduction until the candidate who scores 100 per cent gets no bonus.

    No bonus will be given in the case of the following subjects:- Technical Graphics, Technical Drawing, Leaving Certificate Art (other than History and Appreciation of Art).
    Now....Why is Math and EU languages at 5% and Hebrew 10%... Is there any logic to this at all?

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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    .

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    Politics.ie Member Darren Mac an Phríora's Avatar
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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    Note: it's 10% of the base mark.

    I think that eventually they will have to get rid of this law.

    However, currently there are not even books in Irish available in some subjects at second level so students doing their exams through Irish are at a disadvantage. This merits the marks.

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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    The state is quite entitled to take reasonable measures such as this to encourage an ancient language that is now at death's door.

    If it were some wild flower or marsh snail that were in danger of extinction our Irish liberals would be in full cry, or even if it were the language of some tribal group in Amazonia or New Guinea.

    But since it's "only" their own ancestral language the Irish liberals start baying about fairness and justice!

    Give our children access to millions of internet sites in Irish, a choice of countless textbooks in Irish, educational TV programs in Irish, then you can in "fairness" take away the bonus.

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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    who exactly would be in a position to challenge this measure?
    We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.

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    Politics.ie Member evercloserunion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    The qualification of the quality guarantee in the Constitution, which says that the State may differentiate between different classes based on their social capacity and function, gives the State wide-ranging powers to discriminate and it is unlikely that a challenge to this law would succeed on equality grounds.

    I'm not particularly bothered by it, though I suppose that's because I got more than enough points for my number one college course choice. And I know that I earned those points, I got them by working hard and doing well and not for speaking a dead language and getting sympathy hand-outs from the government.
    To live honestly, to hurt no one, to give every one his due.

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    Politics.ie Newbie Corcaigh33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_anderson
    As we all know, if you do the leaving cert through Irish, you are entitled to an extra 10%.

    Without getting into a pro or anti Irish language thread (we have more than enough of those), I am wondering would this stand up to a legal challange ?
    In my own eyes it would appear to be blatant discrimination as you dont get extra for doing it through any other language.
    How can this be anything other than an anti Irish language thread????

    There is nothing discriminatory about it - it's an encouragement to take up our national first language.
    I studied History and Geography through Irish for my Inter Cert. I got 10% of the mark I achieved added
    on to get my final mark. I have posted extensively as to how I think Irish should be thought in schools so
    that everyone leaving secondary education would be able to actually speak it.

    What is this obsession with any expression of our national culture and our first language that any promotion
    of it needs to be shot down?? And that is what this thread is - an anti Irish language thread.

    No one is discriminated against with this.
    Those who think they know it all upset those of us that do.........

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    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    I'm willing to make a deal. I think its fair to scrap the 10% bonus if publishers must print an identical Irish translation, at the same retail price, of all secondary school books they print.
    That way those who do it through Irish aren't discriminated against by the publishers, and the bonus ends.
    Thats a fair deal I'd say.
    Will anyone listen!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Irish language 10% extra in the leaving cert - is it legal ?

    Quote Originally Posted by returning officer
    who exactly would be in a position to challenge this measure?
    Someone denied a university place, where the cutoff for points was X , X arising from there being a bunch of bonus point students applying for the course, where if the bonus points didnt exist it would be X-whatever, the complainant then being in a position to be offered a place. After all, Both E and G are official languages

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