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Thread: New rubbish Irish Trains

  1. #1
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    Default New rubbish Irish Trains

    Can anyone out there assist with a point of clarification in regard to our lovely new trains by Irish Rail, as rumour has it that they where cast-offs from the Dutch rail system who rejected the quality that was delivered to them ?

    <Mod> Moved to Transport. </Mod>
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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    I'll investigate if you can tell me who they're manufactured by....

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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    They're Rotem IE 22000 class from South Korea. I can't find anything on the Dutch rejecting them.

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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    Dutch trains aren't the highest quality themselves, so I'd be surprised. Also, the Dutch have a different gauge (and more importantly kinetic envelope), so it wouldn't just be a case of flogging them on to the Irish.
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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    I heard that rumour alright,thats why they have no dining facilities on some routes,as they where suppose to be used like a type of dart.
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    The trians are in 2 parts the coach which is made in Korea and the chasis and wheels constructed in Japan. The only place they can test them on our gauge is either here or in Oz.
    Given the speed of the train and the size of Holland i reckon you'd do Amsterdam Groinigen in 75 minutes non stop. Can't see much time for dining on that run unless you want a train full of dining cars!

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    Politics.ie Newbie solair's Avatar
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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    That rumour is utter nonsense. The new trains are custom built and custom designed for Iarnrod Eireann / Irish Rail.
    They're in two batches:

    1) The Cork-Dublin Express - built by CAF in the Basque Country in Spain. These ultimately will run at 200 km/h.

    2) The Intercity DMU trains -These are built by a consortium lead by Mitsui of Japan, involving Tokyu Car (Japan) and Rotem (South Korea) and will run on all other lines except Cork and Belfast. These have engines under the floor so each coach can power itself. The trains can be configured in any length pretty much so they're completely flexible and can be as long or as short as passenger demand dictates. It means that on more marginal services that they can increase frequency and comfort

    Not all of these trains have been delivered yet, so the initial trains don't have dining cars. However, these will start appearing on the rails soon. The busier services e.g. to Galway, Waterford, Tralee, Limerick etc will have the same level of dining car services as the current new Cork-Dublin fleet as well as a first class coach.

    These new trains are manufactured and designed by Mitusi of Japan in conjunction with Rotem in South Korea.

    They're actually quite nice on board too compared to the old crocks that were on a lot of lines here.

    They're absolutely NOT cast off or second hand.

    Intercity DMUs of this kind of design are common on most intercity routes in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. They're ideal for the kind of population spread that we have and the kind of passenger numbers that you get on Irish lines.

    DMUs also have the following advantages due to the fact that there are multiple engines (2 per coach)
    1) They can accelerate very rapidly, meaning they can get up to their top speed quickly - in an Irish context where you've short (relatively) distances and a lot of stops, this speeds things up more dramatically than a high top speed.
    2) If an engine fails, you train keeps going - this improves reliability enormously.

    The Cork-Dublin line is a slightly different configuration because the passenger numbers are huge compared to the rest of the country. That line also is much longer and operates at higher speed with fewer stops. Ultimately, these will have 2 engines i.e. 2 pointy 'power cars' one on each end. This is in the design for the fleet from day one.

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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    200km ?why is it that it take the same time to travel from Mayo to Dublin as it did nearly fifty years ago(Are you right there Micheal are you right)
    Quote Originally Posted by solair
    That rumour is utter nonsense. The new trains are custom built and custom designed for Iarnrod Eireann / Irish Rail.
    They're in two batches:

    1) The Cork-Dublin Express - built by CAF in the Basque Country in Spain. These ultimately will run at 200 km/h.

    2) The Intercity DMU trains that will run on all other lines except Cork and Belfast. These have engines under the floor so each coach can power itself. The trains can be configured in any length pretty much so they're completely flexible and can be as long or as short as passenger demand dictates. It means that on more marginal services that they can increase frequency and comfort

    Not all of these trains have been delivered yet, so the initial trains don't have dining cars. However, these will start appearing on the rails soon. The busier services e.g. to Galway, Waterford, Tralee, Limerick etc will have the same level of dining car services as the current new Cork-Dublin fleet as well as a first class coach.

    These new trains are manufactured and designed by Mitusi of Japan in conjunction with Rotem in South Korea.

    They're actually quite nice on board too compared to the old crocks that were on a lot of lines here.

    They're absolutely NOT cast off or second hand.
    .
    A champion of the people emerges with the age-old and appealing promise of "something for nothing" - to be financed through every-increasing taxes. Supply and demand are thrown out of gear - the overhead goes up; the effective use of human energy goes down; the standard of living is lowered because money cannot buy wealth that is not produced.

    WEAVER, HENRY GRADY,

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    Well you can't just run the train at top speed the entire way:

    Signalling issues - i.e. the system that controls where trains are on the tracks. Most of our lines, except Cork Dublin and Dublin Belfast are single track. This means that trains have to wait turns to go in either direction on any particular section of track. Much of the signalling is not very efficient, (even if it's computerised) so the wait times are often unnecessarily long. This is why you can be stuck in the middle of nowhere waiting for apparently no reason.

    Even on double-track lines, there can be pointless waiting due to badly designed signalling.

    Then there are track quality issues that mean that trains are limited to slower speeds than they're truly capable of.
    Many sections of line are also not in great condition, particularly once you get away from the busier 'flag ship' routes like Cork-Dublin. This means that the trains have to run at limited speeds for comfort and safety reasons!!
    Think of it as driving a brand new sports car down a boreen with potholes. If you were going to drive at 200km/h you'd bounce off into a hedge!

    Coming into Dublin (mostly) but also into Cork and Belfast your high speed intercity train can also get stuck behind a local commuter train running at half the speed. This can also cause huge delays, particularly on the Enterprise as if it misses a signalling slot it can end up stuck behind multiple DARTs or Belfast local trains.

    You can have the fastest trains in the world, but if the network's not up to running them at full speed, they won't make any difference to journey times.

    On top of that, you've got to take into account that trains need to stop at quite a lot of stations on many routes. Everytime a train stops it takes it a good 20 mins to return to top speed. The new trains should improve this because they've better acceleration, however, Irish Rail will need to modify the timetables too.

    Also, Irish Rail incorporate a lot of 'padding' to timetables to avoid trains being officially late thus improving their statistics!!!

    The main thing that these new trains will do in the short to medium term is improve frequency and passenger comfort. Even the old trains were quite capable of going a lot faster than they've ever run in recent years...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New rubbish Irish Trains

    I believe that the locomotives that pull the CDE carriages have a maximum speed of 160km/h, even though the carriages themselves are designed for 200km/h also.
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