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Thread: Integration

  1. #1
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    Default Integration

    Bertie was right in identifying integration as the single, most important issue that will face us in the coming years.

    Paddy O'Gorman was on Pat Kenny's show today; and commented that Ken Livingstone was wrong in portraying the Irish, and Pakistanis, as successful integration examples, in London. O'Gorman thought these two were the least integrated of all nationalities, in England!

    I go along with that. Here, the Indians and Pakistanis are the least integrated. They do not partake in the local culture and tradition; and bring in spouses from their country of origin. The UK has many examples of this ghettoisation of cities. It's got so acceptable that British political parties now choose their candidates to reflect this non-integration.

    We must not allow this to happen here.

    To add to this, the Irish Times of today, carries a statement from a Muslim leader "crriticising religious bias in Ireland" because he says "he lived 20 metres away from a primary school, yet it could not accept his Irish-born son because he was not a Catholic".

    Is he aware that the Muslim school in Clonskeagh will not accept non-Muslim kids?

    There should be no faith-based schools here. The Archbishop of Dublin has made several statements in favour of non-faith based schools and he should be given support.

    Separate a kid in school and you'll separate him/her for life.

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    Default Re: Integration

    Couldn't agree with you more.

    London is often lauded as a multicultural city, when in fact no one culture mixes with the others except at bus stops and in the queue at Sainsbury's etc.

    I have seen things change so much culturally in London over the last 20 years that it's almost unrecognisable anymore.

    There is no real English culture in london. Everything is ghettoised. what White londoners there are are mimicing low class Black ganster culture. With their car steros blaring and wearing nothing but track suits. I'm sad that some fools in Ireland are copying them as some sort of Ali G injoke gone bad.

    In realation to Religion, Muslims are really asserting themselves and I see it especially in Ireland with many media stories about them wanting to build mosques etc. We all know that simillar rights would not be extended in their countries.

    Some say that they are doing this to wind us up, that they know that it's not right to be pushing their religion in our faces with buildings that are completely at odds with our culture and designs and with them wanting to have loud speakers on the top of mosques.

    It brings one back to the old but true statement, when in rome do as the romans do.

    They simply don't agree with this or wish to ignore the sentiment of it and plough ahead with their making themselves fully at home, despite the loacl culture, agenda.

    I feel that the State should respond just as the French have done and espouse proper republicanism and ban all religion from public schooling.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integration

    Integration and immigration-controls - not multiculturalism - are the key sto a successful immigration policy. An assimilationist policy is needed - this has worked relatively well in the US. It's irritating to hear some on the liberal side on immigration combine comparisons with Irish emigration to the US with opposition to US style measures like compulsory health-screening and citizenship-tests. Its seems they want to have their cake and eat it.

    The right to vote in Dáil elections should only be allowed to Irish citizens. In that respect I strongly disagree with Conor Lenihan's notions of handing it to every EU citizen here for five years. It's a source of comfort to me that he admits this has not yet been discussed at Cabinet. Hopefully it will be shot down like it seems to have been some months ago. To grant Dail voting rights to all and sundry removes a crucial element of a successful integration-strategy - namely the incentive of voting rights in return for integrating and becoming an Irish citizen. If Irish citizenship does not come with intrinsic rights, then the point of there being something called "Irish citizenship" becomes highly questionable.

    People with Irish ancestory should be given a more fast-tracked form of citizenship. I was concerned by the recent case of an Irish-American woman who faces possible deportation. Clearly as someone of Irish ancestory, like many Irish-Americans and being English speaking we have little to fear from granting her citizenship. In any case she is a Westerner and as such cases like hers do not come with the same risks of causing a mass-influx on a copy-cat basis.

    For other people, we need citizenship-tests, including the requirement to learn a certain amount about Irish history and values like democracy and freedom of speech. An oath of allegiance to the Irish State should be a requirement for Citizenship. We need to give real meaning to the constitution's provisions linking citizenship with fealty. Those non-nationals who engage in terrorist offences against the State or violent crime deserve to lose their Irish citizenship, as they have shown they are disloyal to Irish society. We also need a ban on ethnic-based parties. Otherwise we may be setting the stage for the polarisation of Irish politics along ethno-religious grounds.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integration

    By and large I agree with the points in your post Jettxyz, except for this:

    Paddy O'Gorman was on Pat Kenny's show today; and commented that Ken Livingstone was wrong in portraying the Irish, and Pakistanis, as successful integration examples, in London. O'Gorman thought these two were the least integrated of all nationalities, in England!
    It is my experience that the Irish in London are integrated. That said there is and always will be a floating level of Irish who are not or will not ever settle in England. But by and large those who chose to make a life in London during the 50's and 60's have mostly lost all trace of their Irish roots and fully integrated. Paddy O'Gormons comments reveal himself to be someone who is entirely unfamiler with the changed ethnic dynamic or London or the history of Irish Imigration and integration there.
    g4 ... e5
    f3 ... Qh4#

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    Politics.ie Member Bobert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integration

    Where I live, an invitation was extended to the Polish community to have a float in this years St. Patrick's Day parade. They declined.

    In saying that, two years ago we had a black St. Patrick. It worked well I thought.

    So, I think it's up to themselves over integration. If they want it, they shall have it.
    Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are, and those few dare not oppose themselves to the opinion of the many, who have the majesty of the state to defend them.

    - Niccolò Machiavelli

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    Default Re: Integration

    Quote Originally Posted by Thac0man
    By and large I agree with the points in your post Jettxyz, except for this:

    Paddy O'Gorman was on Pat Kenny's show today; and commented that Ken Livingstone was wrong in portraying the Irish, and Pakistanis, as successful integration examples, in London. O'Gorman thought these two were the least integrated of all nationalities, in England!
    It is my experience that the Irish in London are integrated. That said there is and always will be a floating level of Irish who are not or will not ever settle in England. But by and large those who chose to make a life in London during the 50's and 60's have mostly lost all trace of their Irish roots and fully integrated. Paddy O'Gormons comments reveal himself to be someone who is entirely unfamiler with the changed ethnic dynamic or London or the history of Irish Imigration and integration there.
    I wouldn't state that for the Irish for the Whole of the UK to be honest, there are thousands of Irish Emigrants who live in Sqaulor these are people who actually built britain and they recieve no gratitude.

    An Irish Contingent of British Army Veterans were snubbed back in November....... If that's Succesful Integration and Gratitude from Britain I'm curious what segregation is like.

    I lived in the UK and sadly I look on most British People who have Irish Descent with Shame: The vast majority are so ignorant of their background it saddens me.

    There are of course many English-Born Irishmen who deserve our gratitude but the Diaspora Children who really Treasure their roots are in the Americas and Australiasia.

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    Default Re: Integration

    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    Integration and immigration-controls - not multiculturalism - are the key sto a successful immigration policy. An assimilationist policy is needed - this has worked relatively well in the US. It's irritating to hear some on the liberal side on immigration combine comparisons with Irish emigration to the US with opposition to US style measures like compulsory health-screening and citizenship-tests. Its seems they want to have their cake and eat it.

    The right to vote in Dáil elections should only be allowed to Irish citizens. In that respect I strongly disagree with Conor Lenihan's notions of handing it to every EU citizen here for five years. It's a source of comfort to me that he admits this has not yet been discussed at Cabinet. Hopefully it will be shot down like it seems to have been some months ago. To grant Dail voting rights to all and sundry removes a crucial element of a successful integration-strategy - namely the incentive of voting rights in return for integrating and becoming an Irish citizen. If Irish citizenship does not come with intrinsic rights, then the point of there being something called "Irish citizenship" becomes highly questionable.

    People with Irish ancestory should be given a more fast-tracked form of citizenship. I was concerned by the recent case of an Irish-American woman who faces possible deportation. Clearly as someone of Irish ancestory, like many Irish-Americans and being English speaking we have little to fear from granting her citizenship. In any case she is a Westerner and as such cases like hers do not come with the same risks of causing a mass-influx on a copy-cat basis.

    For other people, we need citizenship-tests, including the requirement to learn a certain amount about Irish history and values like democracy and freedom of speech. An oath of allegiance to the Irish State should be a requirement for Citizenship. We need to give real meaning to the constitution's provisions linking citizenship with fealty. Those non-nationals who engage in terrorist offences against the State or violent crime deserve to lose their Irish citizenship, as they have shown they are disloyal to Irish society. We also need a ban on ethnic-based parties. Otherwise we may be setting the stage for the polarisation of Irish politics along ethno-religious grounds.
    I find this attitude incomprehensible. Giving one person rights above another based on the patch of ground their granddad was born on 60 years ago makes no sense to me. We need to rise above evolutionary in group out group mentalities if the six billion people on this planet are to have any chance of living in peace.
    Conservatives seem to believe that the rich will work harder if we give them more, and the poor will work harder if we give them less. E.J. Dionne

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Integration

    find this attitude incomprehensible. Giving one person rights above another based on the patch of ground their granddad was born on 60 years ago makes no sense to me. We need to rise above evolutionary in group out group mentalities if the six billion people on this planet are to have any chance of living in peace.
    I disagree. Just as American Jews are very loyal to Israel, people of Irish descent for whom it is a big part of their identity can be relied on more to be loyal to Ireland. I'll keep my "group mentality" thank you very much. I am Irish first and a citizen of the world second.

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    Default Re: Integration

    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    find this attitude incomprehensible. Giving one person rights above another based on the patch of ground their granddad was born on 60 years ago makes no sense to me. We need to rise above evolutionary in group out group mentalities if the six billion people on this planet are to have any chance of living in peace.
    I disagree. Just as American Jews are very loyal to Israel, people of Irish descent for whom it is a big part of their identity can be relied on more to be loyal to Ireland. I'll keep my "group mentality" thank you very much. I am Irish first and a citizen of the world second.
    Ethnocentrism can be a very slippery slope indeed as Jews found out to their cost in Germany. If national chauvinism is a preference should ethnic nationalism take precedence over civic nationalism?
    Conservatives seem to believe that the rich will work harder if we give them more, and the poor will work harder if we give them less. E.J. Dionne

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    Default Re: Integration

    Deportation not integration is the solution to a successful immigrant policy.
    If those who came here illegally such as the thousands of nigerian fraudsters were deported we could talk of integration in the context of an immigration policy.

    as there is so much anarchy and lawlessness associated with immigration into Ireland any government policy which fails first and foremost to deport all these scam artists is doomed to failure.

    as this is currently the case what we really need is a fascist government as they have now in Rome to aggressively take on the armies of rascist foreigners who came here illegally.a suspension of acccess to the courts would be the first thing a fascist government should bring in .Mandatory testing for diseases.The exclusion of all third world immigration.

    Our schools would be freed up,our health service would improve and we could start to breathe again instead of living in fear of the future.

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