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Thread: Hungary, immigration and birth-rate

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    Politics.ie Member JacquesHughes's Avatar
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    Default Hungary, immigration and birth-rate

    It is often claimed ( the logic is rarely closely argued) that countries with low birth-rates, should receive more immigrants to correct their demographic change.

    In Hungary Victor Orban is not accepting that route as Hungary's future.
    Hungary tries for baby boom with tax breaks and loan forgiveness - BBC News

    Hungary's current fertility rate is 1.45 children per woman. An increased fertility rate, Orban said, was a way of defending Hungary's future without depending on immigration.

    During Mr Orban's State of the Nation speech announcing his proposals there was a small counter protest of approx. 2000 people.

    The measures will include: loans to buy houses for mothers, mortgage debt forgiveness when one has three children, lifelong exemption from income tax when a woman has four children, also assistance with nursery places and buying larger vehicles.


    Comment: Fair play to Hungary for not accepting the received orthodoxy, 'There's nothing your society can do; you have to be the passive recipient of demographic changes imposed on you by others'. Victor's analysis of the issues ( financial) underlying the demographic decrease seems plausible. It now takes two hard-working successful middle-managers to buy the house that a bank-clerk and a housewife could buy 80 years ago; there's just not time off the slippery career ladder, or in the long-hours work culture to raise children. The decision to have more children is at present, for many women, a choice for dependency upon her husband/partner ( very contrary to the current ethos of feminism) , or a choice for dependency upon the state ( even less reliable, welfare benefits subject to policy change, rarely generous and bearing a stigma).

    You might note, bringing in immigrants to replace a supposed 'missing generation' mocks the choice of those well-meaning women who declined to have children to 'save the planet' ( I have little idea how common those sentiments are).
    'I’m not having children because I want to save the planet' - BBC News

    I'm not convinced a decreasing birthrate in Europe is a problem at all. Romania's population has been decreasing since 1990- and the EU seems pretty sanguine about 'the problem'- no Brussels agency has asked me to move there; though I could be persuaded and have proven 'stud' characteristics.
    Romania Population (2019) - Worldometers

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    As part of the measures, young couples will be offered interest-free loans of 10 million forint ($36,000), to be cancelled once they have three children.

    Mr Orban said that "for the West", the answer to falling birth rates in Europe was immigration: "For every missing child there should be one coming in and then the numbers will be fine.

    "Hungarian people think differently," he said. "We do not need numbers. We need Hungarian children."
    If only we had some politicians of this calibre.
    Instead of Brussels arselickers.

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Zero problem with this. Govts should be shifting tax rates to address the demographic needs of their society. Doing it now before problems emerge makes sense. People need to look at Japan as their future in lots of ways (for good and for bad). Don't want to get to their demographic problems.

    As long as it doesn't impact on people's rights or equality of opportunity, there's no problem with this.

    From our end, it does speak to things like funding of child care. People keep asking for that to be increased because it enables both parents to work. A valid question for the govt to ask is if you actually need to be encouraging house wifes/husbands back to work right now.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

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    It sounds like a viable option, it gives women who want to have a family practical support and a safety net.

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    Politics.ie Member silverharp's Avatar
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    Sounds good, better through the tax system than welfare.
    "So you think humans should run their societies like lobsters?"........ Cathy Newman C4 News

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    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesHughes View Post

    I'm not convinced a decreasing birthrate in Europe is a problem at all. Romania's population has been decreasing since 1990- and the EU seems pretty sanguine about 'the problem'- no Brussels agency has asked me to move there; though I could be persuaded and have proven 'stud' characteristics.
    Romania Population (2019) - Worldometers
    It's the overall population ageing part of that equation which is the issue. His idea is certainly not the usual policies hes been engaging in vis a vis migration.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    It's the overall population ageing part of that equation which is the issue. His idea is certainly not the usual policies hes been engaging in vis a vis migration.
    go on.....
    How is it different to his "usual policies"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by recedite View Post
    go on.....
    How is it different to his "usual policies"?
    This time, Viktor Orbán has gone too far POLITICO

    Plenty more out there and all very Trumpian and then there's his free work initiative.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    An article by one of those people responsible for ruining Sweden, with her giving out about Hungary's policies.
    I'm still not seeing any inconsistency in Orban's policies.
    Can you be more specific?

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    Quote Originally Posted by recedite View Post
    An article by one of those people responsible for ruining Sweden, with her giving out about Hungary's policies.
    I'm still not seeing any inconsistency in Orban's policies.
    Can you be more specific?
    I would have said his attitude to migrants was very much at odds with this newly-minted paternalistic love of family guff. It's actually a better way to go about things. It probably won't work though as modern life encourages people to enjoy it rather than devote very long periods of their lives to child rearing.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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