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Thread: Hungary, immigration and birth-rate

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Well because Israel's able to discriminate in it's application of laws because it's comfortable with it's status and isn't subject to oversight.

    I think this is a good idea by Hungary. There's no way it will be allowed to just focus on the people Orban would deem "Hungarian" though. So for instance: If I move there tomorrow as an Irish or French or Romanian citizen and decide to have 3 kids (Or whatever the qualifying number is) then I'm going to be able to be entitled to the same stuff as Orban's target demo.

    This will end up in court because he'll try and avoid that.
    He can't avoid that but in reality he isn't trying to. What he is avoiding is his country being selected as a destination for Africans or Muslims or (horrors) both. He already knows how this looks having watched as Hungarian police registered about 400,000 migrants up to the end of 2015. Of course most were passing through but there are plenty more where they originated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Orban's ideas are a lot of crackpot eugenics.

    He is saying that in 20 years time (minimum) there may be enough of a population to sustain a modern economy? In the long run, he and his followers will be dead, when the dubious benefits of this come to pass.

    Meanwhile, the removal of women from the workforce to raise babies, cook and look after their big men will put more pressure on the workers currently employed. What is he going to do, force more and more overtime?

    Who is going to invest in a country with no workers? Hungary has poor healthcare and education, and emigration will continue.

    Either this is a popularity stunt, or a crackpot idea. The way forward would be persuade Hungary's emigrants to return, as well as allowing immigrants to enter, but who would want to go back to Orban's personal political slum?
    Do you think replacing the Hungarian people with Syrians is going to fix the education and health systems? Are you familiar with health and education in Syria?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degeneration X View Post
    Not exactly new policies - Hitler, Mao and Mussolini all encouraged higher birthrates.
    Goodwins law. Hitler probably also had breakfast at 8, therefore only Nazis have breakfast at 8.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Well because Israel's able to discriminate in it's application of laws because it's comfortable with it's status and isn't subject to oversight.

    I think this is a good idea by Hungary. There's no way it will be allowed to just focus on the people Orban would deem "Hungarian" though. So for instance: If I move there tomorrow as an Irish or French or Romanian citizen and decide to have 3 kids (Or whatever the qualifying number is) then I'm going to be able to be entitled to the same stuff as Orban's target demo.

    This will end up in court because he'll try and avoid that.
    I don't think other European people moving to Hungary is perceived to be a problem though. Likewise, I don't think Hungarians coming here, working and availing of public services is a problem. Their kids will be much the same as the kids of natives and they're unlikely to want to live on the dole for a few years then crash cars into crowds and go on a stabby stabby spree.

  5. #55
    Politics.ie Member JacquesHughes's Avatar
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    Default We should not let Hungary be bullied by EU institutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    I posted on this great unsayable some years back. I've never heard any politician refer to (Can you name any Irish, German or British politician who's made any statement?) never mind enact policy on what is arguably the greatest long term threat Europeans face.

    Even mentioning this problem is considered grubby or suspect by some.
    Orban is not as isolated as the European Peoples' Party [ a misnomer if ever there was one] would like. The Visegrad group of countries will watch his proposals with sympathy, as a possible model for themselves. Croatia too (the 4.1 million of them scrapped their way through to the world cup final last year- so they don't lack self-confidence) is unlikely to surrender it's hard-won independence to just any unrelated people from another continent who can arrive there in large numbers.


    I would choose that the nations of Europe do preserve their identities and continue their extraordinary contribution to world culture. Ireland should support Hungary's right to democratic self-determination within the EU, and learn from it's example when it chooses constructive policies.

    Let the EU permit national variety and different things to be tried; including the response to 'demographic collapse'.

  6. #56
    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roll_On View Post
    Do you think replacing the Hungarian people with Syrians is going to fix the education and health systems? Are you familiar with health and education in Syria?
    That is just fear-mongering shyte, because I advocating no such thing.

    Just pointing out that if Hungarians let Orban lead then down some sort of ethnically pure rat-hole, they can expect the poverty and low quality of life that will go with that.

    That goes especially for Hungarian women - it's the kitchen, the nursery and the bedroom for you now, Maria.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

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    Politics.ie Member Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    That is just fear-mongering shyte, because I advocating no such thing.

    Just pointing out that if Hungarians let Orban lead then down some sort of ethnically pure rat-hole, they can expect the poverty and low quality of life that will go with that.

    That goes especially for Hungarian women - it's the kitchen, the nursery and the bedroom for you now, Maria.
    Where's your evidence for any of this? How exactly will Hungary be improved by immigration from countries like Nigeria or Pakistan? And why do you think women who have children are oppressed? Many women would much prefer to be with their children than working some dead end job they hate. In the West many women are forced to put their kids in a creché to be raised by strangers just so they can work long hours to pay rent to a greedy establishment landlord. What's so great about that?

    You probably think you are left wing but you are essentially just an apologist for the rich who want more women and immigrants in the West's labour force so that wages will be rock bottom and profits maximised.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Tax breaks are the best way to do it in Ireland rather than increased child benefit or freebies. Muslims and Africans tend not to pay tax anyways and therefore won't be incentivised to have more kids.
    Exactly. People use the excuse of needing migrants to do the jobs that the Irish won't and to a point that is true, something which needs to change. If Paddy and Mary hadn't got Dole money to pay for them while they live under mammy and daddy's roof they'd be forced to do the jobs. Likewise if Paddy and Mary won't work to warm myself were having their benefit cut every single year because they think they're too good to work in a shop or a factory or in the hospitality industry they'd soon be off the Dole.

    The flip side of the argument is that you don't see very many black lads working in supermarkets, the hospitality industry or doing any unskilled low wage work because once they've got that leave to remain or are given asylum they don't bother to work. That's because they're entitled to all the same allowances as an Irish person and for them, getting a house and Social Welfare is more than they ever would have had back home in Africa.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    I think this is a good idea by Hungary. There's no way it will be allowed to just focus on the people Orban would deem "Hungarian" though. So for instance: If I move there tomorrow as an Irish or French or Romanian citizen and decide to have 3 kids (Or whatever the qualifying number is) then I'm going to be able to be entitled to the same stuff as Orban's target demo.
    This will end up in court because he'll try and avoid that.
    Hungary has absolutely no problem with other Europeans moving in, they just don't want the whole of the third world arriving on their doorstep (as already happened)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roll_On View Post
    I don't think other European people moving to Hungary is perceived to be a problem though. Likewise, I don't think Hungarians coming here, working and availing of public services is a problem. Their kids will be much the same as the kids of natives and they're unlikely to want to live on the dole for a few years then crash cars into crowds and go on a stabby stabby spree.
    Exactly.

  10. #60
    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    That is just fear-mongering shyte, because I advocating no such thing.
    No one but the self-loathing loony-left, open-borders extremists are, and yet it is not untrue to suggest something like that is happening just the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Just pointing out that if Hungarians let Orban lead then down some sort of ethnically pure rat-hole, they can expect the poverty and low quality of life that will go with that.
    So if Hungary wants for itself what Korea, Taiwan, China, Bhutan, Nepal, Mongolia etc already has, they're going down some "ethnically pure rat-hole" (every example I have given you has a either a higher economic growth rate or similar to any European country). Or is this moral imperative of yours only applicable to countries which are ethnically European?

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    That goes especially for Hungarian women - it's the kitchen, the nursery and the bedroom for you now, Maria.
    Most women I know choose not to work and to raise their kids. Which is more oppressive? Having to work or having the option not to?
    "an intelligent, well-informed sparring partner for real debate" - Chris Alexander, Canada's Minister of Citizenship and Immigration from 2013 to 2015.

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