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Thread: Irish nurses unions' virtual closed shop against nursing assistants and associate professionals

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    Default Irish nurses unions' virtual closed shop against nursing assistants and associate professionals

    This extremely restrictive trade union practice above (see stats in Healthcare personnel statistics - nursing and caring professionals - Statistics Explained ) may be modified,likely at a snailpace to prolong registered nurses' closed shop in hospital jobs. The closed shop concept largely disappeared in UK factories in the 1980s. Where have hospital managers been on this issue which interferes with management's prerogative to manage?

    After three years of bureaucratic shuffle on research, it was concluded that an 80/20 ratio of Irish nurses to nurses assistants is optimal for patient care. But is it 80/20 in all hospital departments?

    In the private sector, managers would check with their contacts who have information on the various ratios in the best hospitals internationally and run with that. Maybe they would take a few months at most to decide,making a final decision based on trial and error.

    Given that the UK employs about a million nurses assistants, that suggests Ireland could employ 72,000 of them instead of about 27,000 at present. Of course, that would make a big dent in recruitment of nurses. The UK also has about 98,000 associate professional nurses which is equivalent to about 8,000 for Ireland which has none.
    Last edited by Patslatt1; 24th January 2019 at 02:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    This extremely restrictive trade union practice above (see stats in Healthcare personnel statistics - nursing and caring professionals - Statistics Explained ) may be modified,likely at a snailpace to prolong registered nurses' closed shop in hospital jobs. The closed shop concept largely disappeared in UK factories in the 1980s. Where have hospital managers been on this issue which interferes with management's prerogative to manage?

    After three years of bureaucratic shuffle on research, it was concluded that an 80/20 ratio of Irish nurses to nurses assistants is optimal for patient care. But is it 80/20 in all hospital departments?

    In the private sector, managers would check with their contacts who have information on the various ratios in the best hospitals internationally and run with that. Maybe they would take a few months at most to decide,making a final decision based on trial and error.

    Given that the UK employs about a million nurses assistants, that suggests Ireland could employ 72,000 of them instead of about 27,000 at present. Of course, that would make a big dent in recruitment of nurses. The UK also has about 98,000 associate professional nurses which is equivalent to about 8,000 for Ireland which has none.
    No response yet despite the importance of this issue for staffing hospitals adequately.

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    Default Nurses and HCAs

    Maybe this issue goes to the heart of the nursing dichotomy towards being on one hand a degree level profession and at the same time hanging on to the more traditional nursing (female) roles of caring activity often described as"basic nursing care".
    The older nursing staff may not have a primary degree and are happy with basic nursing care (less responsibility for higher-level duties). Conversely, younger nurses who have primary degree may prefer to engage in less basic care and concentrate on the expansion of the nursing role but are restrained from doing so by their older and senior colleagues, who prefer the status quo. I sometimes wonder if the prospect of 40 years of basic nursing care is no longer an attractive career path for someone with a primary degree and therefore may be a contributing factor to the recruitment and retention dilemma.
    Last edited by Craggyjack; 24th January 2019 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    Politics.ie Member making waves's Avatar
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    patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - although these days it is turning into a daily bash the nurses thread.
    Support the nurses strike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patslatt1 View Post
    No response yet despite the importance of this issue for staffing hospitals adequately.
    You keep having conversations with yourself Pat, That way you will have someone who agrees with you- and who is equally cerebrally challenged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by making waves View Post
    patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - although these days it is turning into a daily bash the nurses thread.
    So says the fan of hard left socialist Chavismo in Venezuela but he now contributes to famine relief charities there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craggyjack View Post
    Maybe this issue goes to the heart of the nursing dichotomy towards being on one hand a degree level profession and at the same time hanging on to the more traditional nursing (female) roles of caring activity often described as"basic nursing care".
    The older nursing staff may not have a primary degree and are happy with basic nursing care (less responsibility for higher-level duties). Conversely, younger nurses who have primary degree may prefer to engage in less basic care and concentrate on the expansion of the nursing role but are restrained from doing so by their older and senior colleagues, who prefer the status quo. I sometimes wonder if the prospect of 40 years of basic nursing care is no longer an attractive career path for someone with a primary degree and therefore may be a contributing factor to the recruitment and retention dilemma.
    Are degreed nurses really "too posh to wash" patients? A doctor acquaintance in Canada joked many years ago that Canadian nurses with advanced education wanted to be "mini-doctors".

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    Quote Originally Posted by making waves View Post
    patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - although these days it is turning into a daily bash the nurses thread.
    It's all just his form of bishop bashing over the private sector
    I have no money, but I love my life.

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    There is a genuine and statistically backed gap between the pay and conditions of Irish nurses and their Canadian and Australian counterparts.
    Repeal the Fakes.

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    Can someone please explain why It takes 4 years for someone to be trained up to be a nurse through a Degree programme when many years ago a Degree wasn't required?

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