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Thread: Howlin gets slapped in the puss by Vrad over Labour housing failures

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    Promised 'Labour's way', delivered 'Frankfurt's way'.
    Anyone who saw that as a policy position is too stupid to be allowed out, let alone vote. Labour had a manifesto of spending cuts and tax hikes that aimed to reduce a budget deficit of €20 billion in 2010 to about €4 billion by 2016.

    Promised to protect the most vulnerable, targeted them for cuts and the public debt burden they created for the gambling debts of the elites.
    As I said, their manifesto had cuts and taxes in it. They won 1/3 of the seats in a coalition, FG won 2/3rds of the seats. Yet the agreed programme for government was a 50-50 split between the manifestos of the two parties when it came to taxes and spending. Whether you like it or not, Labour did not win a majority. They had no mandate to implement their manifesto, a manifesto you clearly know absolutely nothing about anyway. Also, the vast majority of public debt is due to overspending on public services, public pay, and welfare. There was no debt taken on to pay anyone's "gambling debts".

    Promised to protect this country's future by keeping third-level affordable, then doubled fees and halved grants.
    Fair enough, but again they didn't win a majority. Labour had 1/3 of the seats in a coalition, but for some reason you seem to think every Labour policy should have been implemented to the letter. Why?

    Promised social justice
    Define "social justice".

    spent years victimising the Jobstown protesters after they finally rebelled against decades of managed decline.
    They didn't victimise the Jobstown protesters. But they're quite right to dislike them, and call them out on their disgusting, misogynistic, thuggish behaviour towards their party leader. The fact that a few protesters were acquitted in court doesn't make their behaviour any less shameful.

    Promised to solve homelessness by 2016,
    There was no homelessness crisis when they took office. It was that government's success in turning the economy round quicker than anyone expected which created that crisis.

    created the current housing crisis via HAP.
    What? Even by the standards of your post so far, that's a moronically brain-dead and ignorant statement.

    Promised to represent workers and improve their conditions, created JobBridge and failed to legislate against precarious work.
    They increased the minimum wage despite a €20 billion budget deficit and record unemployment, they maintained core welfare payments, increased training and reskilling, and yes, helped people back to work via schemes like Jobbridge, which were largely successful. And 200,000 new jobs created over the course of that government - the vast majority full-time.

    Tell me, HBAP - how are Labour not the lowest of traitors?
    No. Labour and FG in government from 2011-16 did more for this country every week than you'll do in your whole life.
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  2. #22
    Politics.ie Member Eventualities's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
    Anyone who saw that as a policy position is too stupid to be allowed out, let alone vote. Labour had a manifesto of spending cuts and tax hikes that aimed to reduce a budget deficit of €20 billion in 2010 to about €4 billion by 2016.
    Then that casts them as two-faced gomies solely interested in implementing Fianna Fáil policy.

    As I said, their manifesto had cuts and taxes in it. They won 1/3 of the seats in a coalition, FG won 2/3rds of the seats. Yet the agreed programme for government was a 50-50 split between the manifestos of the two parties when it came to taxes and spending. Whether you like it or not, Labour did not win a majority. They had no mandate to implement their manifesto, a manifesto you clearly know absolutely nothing about anyway. Also, the vast majority of public debt is due to overspending on public services, public pay, and welfare. There was no debt taken on to pay anyone's "gambling debts".
    That was in no way a split of policies that involved even the most nominal of left-wing parties. That was Thatcherite 'managed decline' brought in under cover of financial crisis. They won the largest result in their electoral history, and should have waited a few months for FG to be turfed out before sweeping in and delivering real democratic socialist policies. Of course, that was never the plan. Labour have always been Blueshirt lapdogs.

    There is no 'overspending' on public services. That kind of double-speak is designed to commodify things that people need as part of the social safety net, though as a Labour shill, I'm sure that's your aim anyway.

    Fair enough, but again they didn't win a majority. Labour had 1/3 of the seats in a coalition, but for some reason you seem to think every Labour policy should have been implemented to the letter. Why?
    They got into power. The coalition and government would have folded without them. They should have leveraged that to avoid another election if they were really into the country's best interests, and used that to force the Blueshirts' hand.

    Instead, they rode a wave of young peoples' support to the Dáil, and then fed them to the wolves immediately. Traitors.

    Define "social justice".
    Not permanently disadvantaging an entire generation, not normalising precarious work, not slashing welfare, not preventing educational progress by betraying student movements, not slashing lone parents' allowance. Working for the values that a Labour party is supposed to represent.

    They didn't victimise the Jobstown protesters. But they're quite right to dislike them, and call them out on their disgusting, misogynistic, thuggish behaviour towards their party leader. The fact that a few protesters were acquitted in court doesn't make their behaviour any less shameful.
    NOT GUILTY. Get it through that skull. Show trials. Dawn raids. A squad of lying guards caught rotten by a videotape. Traitorous Joan, a victimiser of the working people and less fortunate, brought to bear. There'll be beers and vegan BBQ at my gaff when she finally shuffles off this mortal coil.

    There was no homelessness crisis when they took office. It was that government's success in turning the economy round quicker than anyone expected which created that crisis.
    I can't find the laugh emote button quick enough. HAP brought landlords money by the barrowful. They just threw the weekly welfare they got on top of the regular rent! Then you wonder why good people are dying on our streets, going spare and taking to addiction to get through a day.

    There is no recovery. There's sh!t jobs, and zero-hour deals. There's call centres and that's about it. How many people with degrees and masters' are out there braving the final days of retail, or telling some fat Yank how to open Gmail over the phone for a few bob because their country let them down?

    They increased the minimum wage despite a €20 billion budget deficit and record unemployment, they maintained core welfare payments, increased training and reskilling, and yes, helped people back to work via schemes like Jobbridge, which were largely successful. And 200,000 new jobs created over the course of that government - the vast majority full-time.
    Did the minimum wage come up at the same speed as the cost of living? If not, shut up. Did they retain core payments? Ask the people that were under-25 at the time how they felt to have to drop out of college and live on €90 a week while scrapping for jobs that didn't exist. All while employers were allowed to get away scot-free with not paying young people for their work, thus devaluing the labour of a generation and normalising subsistence wages. That is on Labour's head. And that scheme was such a success that they had to launch another one, and the real unemployment rate still vacillates between 20-25% including zero-hours, unpaid work, ScamPath and other tricks.

    No. Labour and FG in government from 2011-16 did more for this country every week than you'll do in your whole life.
    You're a dirty shill for austerity, greed and poverty, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and for your family.
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  3. #23
    Politics.ie Member Eventualities's Avatar
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    You've gone quiet again, HBAP.

    You tend to do that after someone points out the obvious.
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  4. #24
    Politics.ie Member RasherHash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    Anyone seen this on the Twitter machine today?

    Two of the four pillars of Irish austerity obviously experiencing post-marital difficulty, as Liebour's ongoing case of amnesia finally gets the better of fellow right-winger Leo's patience.

    Mick Caul on Twitter:

    Look at Howlin, belting and fuming as the realisation hits him.

    I hate FG, they have blood on their hands like any other establishment party, but I loathe Labour for betraying the ordinary people, and to see their betrayal come back on them, again and again in the public discussion is nothing short of sweet.
    Exactly, fascists like Howlin are hoping people will forget their duplicity -just as ff are- and they can go their merry way raping the taxpayer and living on the gravy train as they have always done.
    "CNN is a fake news bureau". Galloway.
    "The Democrats gave up on the working class 40 years ago." Noam Chomsky.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    Then that casts them as two-faced gomies solely interested in implementing Fianna Fáil policy.
    It wasn't Fianna Fail policy, it was mathematics, forced on Fianna Fail as a consequence of their destruction of the economy.


    That was in no way a split of policies that involved even the most nominal of left-wing parties. That was Thatcherite 'managed decline' brought in under cover of financial crisis.
    Yes it was a split of policies, if you actually bothered to read the two parties' manifestos you'd see that.

    They won the largest result in their electoral history, and should have waited a few months for FG to be turfed out before sweeping in and delivering real democratic socialist policies. Of course, that was never the plan. Labour have always been Blueshirt lapdogs.
    Why? They won their best ever result with a social democratic policy platform that prioritised tax rises over spending cuts in order to fix the public finances and get the economy going again. Meanwhile the parties that proposed what you claim to be "democratic socialist policies" won, at best, about 10% of the vote, while the parties and candidates who proposed paying our debts, fixing the public finances and getting the economy going again won at least 80% of the vote. It's clear which approach the electorate preferred. As for your idea that Labour should have stayed out of power, that would have resulted in an immediate election as FG sought a proper mandate to fix the public finances, as a minority government in that situation would've been a disaster. And in that situation Labour would, having publicly absented themselves from forming a government, would have lost seats and votes, and handed FG a majority.

    There is no 'overspending' on public services. That kind of double-speak is designed to commodify things that people need as part of the social safety net, though as a Labour shill, I'm sure that's your aim anyway.
    Lie about me all you like, it's a sign you're losing the argument. If you spend more money than you're taking in, you're overspending. And that applies to anything from a government to a business to a household. I suspect from the nature of your posts that you've never run any of those.

    They got into power. The coalition and government would have folded without them. They should have leveraged that to avoid another election if they were really into the country's best interests, and used that to force the Blueshirts' hand.
    See above. FG and Labour between them had a rock-solid 55-57% of the vote in every poll for the previous year. The voters who voted for either party transferred heavily to the other, and voted the way they did in full knowledge that a vote for one was also a vote for coalition with the other. If Labour had absented themselves from forming a government they'd have lost votes and seats in the election that would have immediately followed.

    Instead, they rode a wave of young peoples' support to the Dáil, and then fed them to the wolves immediately. Traitors.
    No they didn't.


    Not permanently disadvantaging an entire generation, not normalising precarious work
    They didn't. Youth unemployment is falling fast, and we're nearly at full employment overall. As for "precarious work", how are you defining this, and how do numbers in "precarious work" compare with say 10, 15, 20 years ago?

    not slashing welfare,
    They didn't slash welfare.

    not preventing educational progress by betraying student movements, not slashing lone parents' allowance. Working for the values that a Labour party is supposed to represent.
    You know there was a €20 billion deficit each year, right? Labour got a lot of what they wanted on taxation and welfare, but I repeat - they had 1/3 of the seats in a coalition. By what logic can you possibly claim that they should've got everything they wanted? I've asked you this already, kindly answer this time.


    NOT GUILTY. Get it through that skull. Show trials. Dawn raids. A squad of lying guards caught rotten by a videotape.
    Errrr, ok then. Not much of a "show trial" if they were acquitted, was it? Sounds to me like you've no idea what a show trial actually is. Like much of your posts, you're just trotting out the slogans of the hard left, without, I suspect, any idea what many of them even mean.

    Traitorous Joan, a victimiser of the working people and less fortunate, brought to bear. There'll be beers and vegan BBQ at my gaff when she finally shuffles off this mortal coil.
    Well that says more about you than it does about Joan. Particularly when taken in conjunction with your previous posts, which suggests that calling women b*tch, wh*re and c*nt is considered by you to be acceptable behaviour.

    I can't find the laugh emote button quick enough. HAP brought landlords money by the barrowful. They just threw the weekly welfare they got on top of the regular rent! Then you wonder why good people are dying on our streets, going spare and taking to addiction to get through a day.
    Ehhh no, they didn't. HAP fills the gap between what low-income renters can afford, and the market rate for rent. Without HAP, those people would be out on the street. If you think otherwise, then please explain why so many landlords are so reluctant to take HAP tenants?

    Dublin mother-of-four fears eviction before Christmas

    "There is too many people at viewings, they don't even contact you back when you say you're looking for a HAP (Housing Assistance Payment) apartment".
    There is no recovery.There's sh!t jobs, and zero-hour deals. There's call centres and that's about it. How many people with degrees and masters' are out there braving the final days of retail, or telling some fat Yank how to open Gmail over the phone for a few bob because their country let them down?
    Yes there is a recovery, you muppet. Look at the numbers in fulltime employment. Look at average wages. Look at income tax revenues and USC revenues going up year after year despite those taxes being cut for all workers. And no, it's not all call centres and sh*t jobs. If you think otherwise, let's see the evidence.



    Did the minimum wage come up at the same speed as the cost of living? If not, shut up.
    No, it went up faster. It went up by 12% at a time when the economy was in deflation, and has continued to rise despite inflation being only 1% for years now.

    Did they retain core payments?
    Yes. Labour secured that in government.

    Ask the people that were under-25 at the time how they felt to have to drop out of college and live on €90 a week while scrapping for jobs that didn't exist.
    If they were in college, what were they doing trying to claim the dole?

    All while employers were allowed to get away scot-free with not paying young people for their work, thus devaluing the labour of a generation and normalising subsistence wages.That is on Labour's head. And that scheme was such a success that they had to launch another one
    Employers weren't taking people on because the economy was in recession. That was creating a vicious spiral for people who without jobs couldn't get experience, and without experience couldn't get jobs. Jobbridge addressed that, and Jobbridge workers were getting at least €238 a week, which isn't bad. Anyway what's so awful about working for your dole? At the end of the day, you're given that money from the taxes of people who are at work, surely you've some responsibility to them in return?

    and the real unemployment rate still vacillates between 20-25% including zero-hours, unpaid work, ScamPath and other tricks.
    No it doesn't, that's bull. If you think otherwise, let's see the facts.



    You're a dirty shill for austerity, greed and poverty,
    If by that you mean full employment, economic growth and sound financial management, then yes I am.

    and you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and for your family.
    Well I'm not. But as someone who says they'll celebrate a death with beers and a barbeque, you should think very hard before casting aspersions on anyone's character.

    Finally, note the following - despite the tone of your posts, I've answered everything you said with FACTS. If you're not prepared to do likewise, please don't bother replying.
    Last edited by hiding behind a poster; 8th December 2018 at 04:12 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eventualities View Post
    You've gone quiet again, HBAP.

    You tend to do that after someone points out the obvious.
    Ohh dear, that really is an unfortunate bit of timing on your part. You realise that this is an online discussion forum, don't you? Sometimes people are online, sometimes they're not.
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  7. #27
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    I do find it touching how a member of the party who used Labour as their mudguard for 5 years is now singing their praises from high.
    It's cute.
    Ignoring retarded minds! retarded/rɪˈtɑːdɪd/very foolish or stupid."in retrospect, it was a totally retarded idea"

  8. #28
    Politics.ie Member Eventualities's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
    It wasn't Fianna Fail policy, it was mathematics, forced on Fianna Fail as a consequence of their destruction of the economy.
    It was policy to move money up the chain to their buddies in banks and property, and the property crash provided them the best opportunity to do this.

    Yes it was a split of policies, if you actually bothered to read the two parties' manifestos you'd see that.
    A left and right split would create centrism. That was a hard-right government that succeeded in dragging the Overton window over.

    Why? They won their best ever result with a social democratic policy platform that prioritised tax rises over spending cuts in order to fix the public finances and get the economy going again.
    They didn't, though. We're still getting Troika visits, rural Ireland has finally been permanently gutted and quality, full-time, permanent jobs aren't coming back to our inner-cities.

    Meanwhile the parties that proposed what you claim to be "democratic socialist policies" won, at best, about 10% of the vote
    That'll happen for new parties formed in the midst of turmoil, alright, give it a few elections

    while the parties and candidates who proposed paying our debts
    Not 'our' debt. I was a child during the boom. I didn't walk in and get a five-figure loan on my second patio for my third house.

    fixing the public finances and getting the economy going again
    Then why aren't we fixing homelessness, restoring the two-tier public-sector pay and bringing in a living wage?

    As for your idea that Labour should have stayed out of power, that would have resulted in an immediate election as FG sought a proper mandate to fix the public finances, as a minority government in that situation would've been a disaster. And in that situation Labour would, having publicly absented themselves from forming a government, would have lost seats and votes, and handed FG a majority.
    FG sought a mandate to pursue a twisted, sickening, Catholic-guilt level of flagellation for sins the ordinary people had nothing to do with. They're the Tories, and their obsession with dismantling public service and Irish society will be breaking of them.

    No they didn't.
    I suppose I hallucinated Quinn signing off on that massive pledge to protect students and subsequent USI campaigning for Labour as a result.

    They didn't. Youth unemployment is falling fast, and we're nearly at full employment overall. As for "precarious work", how are you defining this, and how do numbers in "precarious work" compare with say 10, 15, 20 years ago?
    Youth unemployment remains at 12-15% on average. Precarious work is work on zero-hours deals, casual work, short-term contracts, gigified jobs like taxing, couriering, etc.

    They didn't slash welfare.
    So under-25s aren't people in your eyes, then.

    You know there was a €20 billion deficit each year, right?
    Wasn't real debt. Wasn't run up by the people. Bankers and other types should been held accountable, like Labour promised to do. 'Labour's Way'.

    Labour got a lot of what they wanted on taxation and welfare, but I repeat - they had 1/3 of the seats in a coalition. By what logic can you possibly claim that they should've got everything they wanted? I've asked you this already, kindly answer this time.
    They had FG by the goolies. They should have twisted for everything their voters put them in for.

    Well that says more about you than it does about Joan. Particularly when taken in conjunction with your previous posts, which suggests that calling women b*tch, wh*re and c*nt is considered by you to be acceptable behaviour.
    What kind of Minister for Social Protection is so unaware of her incompetence that she arranges a ribbon-cutting and photo op at a new food bank, a sure sign that she's failing at her job?

    Ehhh no, they didn't. HAP fills the gap between what low-income renters can afford, and the market rate for rent.
    Explain why rent suddenly shot up by a few hundred every month, then.

    Yes there is a recovery, you muppet.
    Where? My hometown is boarded up and ageing out of existence. Cork city is full of empty retail units and Council spending on social projects, arts council, etc. has flatlined.

    Look at the numbers in fulltime employment. Look at average wages. Look at income tax revenues and USC revenues going up year after year despite those taxes being cut for all workers. And no, it's not all call centres and sh*t jobs.
    Where are the quality jobs for graduates, then? All I see when I go jobhunting is sh*t jobs and foreign-language customer-service.

    No, it went up faster. It went up by 12% at a time when the economy was in deflation, and has continued to rise despite inflation being only 1% for years now.
    So, if we have a living wage, like you claim, why have we a generation locked out of the housing market for an inability to save while also meeting living costs?

    Yes. Labour secured that in government.
    They did not. Under-25s were told to starve or emigrate.

    If they were in college, what were they doing trying to claim the dole?
    They'd to claim after dropping out thanks to Quinn's betrayals. You know this and are making a hash of being facetious.

    Employers weren't taking people on because the economy was in recession. That was creating a vicious spiral for people who without jobs couldn't get experience, and without experience couldn't get jobs.
    Wasn't a recession. It was an upward transfer of wealth. That was then exploited to make labour free for employers and prime a young generation for expendability.

    Jobbridge addressed that, and Jobbridge workers were getting at least €238 a week, which isn't bad.
    Not a fair wage for fair work.

    Anyway what's so awful about working for your dole? At the end of the day, you're given that money from the taxes of people who are at work, surely you've some responsibility to them in return?
    People on welfare pay VAT on the purchases they make. VAT accounted for 26% of tax intake last year. Suffice to say, lads on the dole are paying for themselves and owe conservative Ireland nothing.

    No it doesn't, that's bull. If you think otherwise, let's see the facts.
    Broad unemployment is 17% as of earlier this year...
    Finfacts Ireland: Irish broad rate of unemployment at 17% in March 2018

    ...up 2% on last year.
    Irish broad unemployment rate at 15% in April 2017 vs 6% official rate

    If by that you mean full employment, economic growth and sound financial management, then yes I am.
    Starving people of work and personal development, leaving them at home until their thirties, and killing off entire swathes of rural Irish society, isn't sound in any regard.

    Finally, note the following - despite the tone of your posts, I've answered everything you said with FACTS.
    Send for the man.
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  9. #29
    Politics.ie Member Eventualities's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
    Ohh dear, that really is an unfortunate bit of timing on your part. You realise that this is an online discussion forum, don't you? Sometimes people are online, sometimes they're not.
    Let's see you be so quick to answer the above, then.
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  10. #30
    Politics.ie Member Eventualities's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Ted Crilly View Post
    I do find it touching how a member of the party who used Labour as their mudguard for 5 years is now singing their praises from high.
    It's cute.
    He then pusses out after being presented with the realities. Must be nice to be deluded
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