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Thread: Homophobic discrimination results in funding cut

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by bactrian View Post
    "Homophobia" is an easy accusation, no need for proof . It has that ironclad "prove that you are not" facility.
    I didn't use the term either, but as a general catch-all term as in "He/she is a bit homophobic" it's pretty accurate. We all know people who behave with perfectly good manners, who'd be entirely courteous to gays etc. in their presence, but would also privately be a bit judgemental about them to others of their own frame of mind, which I would frame as mildly homophobic.

    Quote Originally Posted by bactrian View Post
    "And the state should not be subsidising public services provided by religious organisation which discriminate against minorities. "

    It is not a public service, it is a service provided to the public (taxpayer) by religious organisation . A service which should be provided by the State has been sub-contracted to a third party. A Third Party can have an ethos different (and in conflict) to the ethos of the State. The proper question is not about "Religious Interference" but about the State abdicating responsibility.
    It's not a governmental public service but it is a public service - it provides a service to the public. Assuming that it happily provides its services to non-Catholics as a condition of government funding, which I presume is the case, then what is the problem with SSM? The Catholic Church doesn't agree with what they would see as the moral shortcomings of members of other religions, but gay marriage is the only one they object to.
    The Irish state has always abdicated its responsibilities where the Church has been concerned and indeed for decades the Church insisted upon it - the evil bastards had no problem destroying the careers of good, well-intentioned men like Noel Browne when they tried to wrest back those 'responsibilities' into state control.

  2. #172
    Politics.ie Member statsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bactrian View Post
    The title of this thread is "Homophobic discrimination results in funding cut"

    I'm going to dispute the use of the term "Homophobic" , not because I have any proof that they are not homophobic, but , because I have no proof that they are actually homophobic.

    BTW my very loved daughter , who I proudly and loudly celebrate, is a Lesbian. I have no hesitation in attacking those who exhibit homophobic sentiment.


    I have acquaintances who voted against the Marriage Equality Referendum. They believe that it was wrong! I have never heard them utter a word of hatred against LGBTQ+. They believe differently than me. They are not homophobic. Their's is an unpopular view, maybe even an "out of date" view, but it is not a view of hate.

    "Homophobia" is an easy accusation, no need for proof . It has that ironclad "prove that you are not" facility.

    "And the state should not be subsidising public services provided by religious organisation which discriminate against minorities. "

    It is not a public service, it is a service provided to the public (taxpayer) by religious organisation . A service which should be provided by the State has been sub-contracted to a third party. A Third Party can have an ethos different (and in conflict) to the ethos of the State. The proper question is not about "Religious Interference" but about the State abdicating responsibility.
    In my view their actions and the nature of the constitutional provision that underpin those actions are evidence of a degree of homophobia, inasmuch as they seem determined not to accept the extension of the same marriage rights to gay people as they do to straight people.
    Put a thief among honest men and they will eventually relieve him of his watch. Flann O'Brien

  3. #173
    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    In my view their actions and the nature of the constitutional provision that underpin those actions are evidence of a degree of homophobia, inasmuch as they seem determined not to accept the extension of the same marriage rights to gay people as they do to straight people.
    So? - are people not entitled to have their own views on what constitutes a marriage?
    If you can convince a People to engage in the mass elimination of their own offspring - you can probably get them to do anything...http://irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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    Politics.ie Member statsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    So? - are people not entitled to have their own views on what constitutes a marriage?
    They are, but if those views are homophobic, other people are equally entitled to call them out on it.

    And they are not entitled to pretend that the laws of the land to not pertain to their behaviours.

    At least you're not disputing the fact that homophobia is involved.
    Put a thief among honest men and they will eventually relieve him of his watch. Flann O'Brien

  5. #175
    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Staff at the Cork Marriage Counselling Centre (CMCC) have move swiftly to disassociate themselves from the centre's directors to refuse counselling services to same-sex couples. The decision not to sign an agreement with state agency Tusla that would require CMCC tocomply with equality legislation was made by the directors without consultation with the centre's counselling staff. As a consequence, funding amounting to between €250,000 and €300,000 per annum has been withdrawn.

    It appears that the refusal stems from a provision in the centre's constitution that prohibits the provision of services to same-sex couples. While they are perfectly entitled to do so, they have no been brought face-to-face with the fact that Bunreacht na hÉireann trumps their rule book when it comes to the allocation of state funding. While I have some sympathy with the CMCC's staff and clients who are likely to suffer as a result, it's good to see agencies of the state uphold the laws of the state and the democratically expressed wishes of the citizenship.

    The Irish Times covers the story here: Marriage counselling centre loses funding because it will not help gay couples
    Pre Marriage Courses
    Pre Marriage courses are presented
    and designed to address the needs and
    expectations of contemporary couples
    preparing for a Christian marriage

    HOME - Cork Marriage Conselling Centre



    They state pretty clearly what they are about

    Obviously they are being targeted because they are Christians...
    If you can convince a People to engage in the mass elimination of their own offspring - you can probably get them to do anything...http://irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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    Politics.ie Member statsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    Pre Marriage Courses
    Pre Marriage courses are presented
    and designed to address the needs and
    expectations of contemporary couples
    preparing for a Christian marriage

    HOME - Cork Marriage Conselling Centre



    They state pretty clearly what they are about

    Obviously they are being targeted because they are Christians...
    They're not being targeted. They failed to comply with the conditions of the funding, so the funding is being withdrawn.

    Think of it like Brexit, you can't opt out of the club and then expect to retain the benefits of membership.
    Put a thief among honest men and they will eventually relieve him of his watch. Flann O'Brien

  7. #177
    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    They're not being targeted. They failed to comply with the conditions of the funding, so the funding is being withdrawn.

    Think of it like Brexit, you can't opt out of the club and then expect to retain the benefits of membership.
    They being targeted because they are Christians

    Seriously how many Homosexuals would wish to use their services anyway?
    If you can convince a People to engage in the mass elimination of their own offspring - you can probably get them to do anything...http://irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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    Witch petaljam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    They being targeted because they are Christians

    Seriously how many Homosexuals would wish to use their services anyway?
    Unless their guidance counselling includes a lecture about the basic sinfulness of homosexuality, why would homosexuals care?

    I assume they'd be more interested in things like when someone can see them and how approachable and competent the counsellor is. Like anyone else.
    KOBO

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Sorry Catalpast but noone is forcing them to change their religious beliefs. Its just that they aren't going to be paid to not do so. And anyway in a secular state it should be possible to separate ones personal beliefs from ones actions for the purposes of providing state services. We've seen from Irish history how damaging it can be when Church and State have a close relationship (over centuries in fact).
    "A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one." - Aristotle

  10. #180
    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    Unless their guidance counselling includes a lecture about the basic sinfulness of homosexuality, why would homosexuals care?

    I assume they'd be more interested in things like when someone can see them and how approachable and competent the counsellor is. Like anyone else.
    Are there no support groups in Cork that they could use instead?

    Why would they deliberately target a Christian Help Group?

    This smacks of the Gay Cake Fiasco up the North

    - find some institution that is known to have Christian values

    - and try to bring it down.....
    If you can convince a People to engage in the mass elimination of their own offspring - you can probably get them to do anything...http://irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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