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Thread: The Climate Change Debate Thread (Second Thread)

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    The American Republican Party is the only major political party with an official policy of climate change denial. This is not because of the President (Trump got the nomination because his denial of science upset few people), but because denial and fossil fuel money took over the party about a decade ago.

    There are others, mostly hard-right European fascists.

    The G.O.P. wasn’t always an anti-environment, anti-science party. George H.W. Bush introduced the cap-and-trade program that largely controlled the problem of acid rain.

    As late as 2008, John McCain called for a similar program to limit emissions of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming.
    And, we could add, the US EPA was established by Richard Nixon.

    The truth is that most prominent climate deniers are basically paid to take that position, receiving large amounts of money from fossil-fuel companies.

    But after the release of the recent National Climate Assessment detailing the damage we can expect from global warming, a parade of Republicans went on TV to declare that scientists were only saying these things “for the money.” Projection much?
    .... we can now see climate denial as part of a broader moral rot. Donald Trump isn’t an aberration, he’s the culmination of where his party has been going for years.
    Climate Denial Was the Crucible for Trumpism

    See also, from a once Reaganite supporter:

    The Right's Climate Change Shame

    It is not true any more to present climate change denial as "conservatism". Climate change deniers are radical reactionaries.
    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    The American Republican Party is the only major political party with an official policy of climate change denial. This is not because of the President (Trump got the nomination because his denial of science upset few people), but because denial and fossil fuel money took over the party about a decade ago.

    There are others, mostly hard-right European fascists.



    And, we could add, the US EPA was established by Richard Nixon.





    Climate Denial Was the Crucible for Trumpism

    See also, from a once Reaganite supporter:

    The Right's Climate Change Shame

    It is not true any more to present climate change denial as "conservatism". Climate change deniers are radical reactionaries.
    Pure projection from Odious
    We made our bed.......

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    Politics.ie Member owedtojoy's Avatar
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    "A Basic Pragmatic Summary of Climate Change"

    "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence" - David Hume

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    Quote Originally Posted by gandyalf View Post
    Utter lunacy and its seems ordinary processes are simply going to fail.

    Looks to me like the only immediate solution is to start crashing economies. People are not taking responsibility. No it isn't fair but life is not fair.

    There is always the option of massive investment in geo engineering to help solve the problem at the same time. It amazes me that people aren't getting their heads around what is actually happening here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    The American Republican Party is the only major political party with an official policy of climate change denial. This is not because of the President (Trump got the nomination because his denial of science upset few people), but because denial and fossil fuel money took over the party about a decade ago.

    There are others, mostly hard-right European fascists.



    And, we could add, the US EPA was established by Richard Nixon.





    Climate Denial Was the Crucible for Trumpism

    See also, from a once Reaganite supporter:

    The Right's Climate Change Shame

    It is not true any more to present climate change denial as "conservatism". Climate change deniers are radical reactionaries.
    Climate change = a departure from hundreds of years of weather opinion.
    Climate change denial = a departure from a departure from hundreds of years of weather opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    Utter lunacy and its seems ordinary processes are simply going to fail.

    Looks to me like the only immediate solution is to start crashing economies. People are not taking responsibility. No it isn't fair but life is not fair.

    There is always the option of massive investment in geo engineering to help solve the problem at the same time. It amazes me that people aren't getting their heads around what is actually happening here.
    Well said, we need a European Army to enforce climate shutdown of the economies of the world. The first requisite is end elections, elections can undoo all the good work done by totalitarianism. We already have a model in North Korea and Cuba.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breeal View Post
    Pure projection from Odious
    Projection ???? Horse manure XXXXX


    When you think of it, In Britain, Ireland and the USA (English speaking) Probably France too, before an election the big issue is taxes. The more progressive a government is, the more it likes to tax. It's like the effect of gravity on a bird flying. Climate change was invented to get round the problem politicians have facing voters in elections. They can lie once (Pat Rabbit said it is OK to lie at election time) but not twice, so they run out of road.

    Climate change provides the hysteria to break through the problem and to bring the media on side. There is a time delay between the imposition of carbon taxes (and industry destroying measures) and voters copping onto it. In France that time delay was between the election and now. In America it was peak climate hysteria (Sept 2013) and 2016.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valamhic View Post
    Projection ???? Horse manure XXXXX


    When you think of it, In Britain, Ireland and the USA (English speaking) Probably France too, before an election the big issue is taxes. The more progressive a government is, the more it likes to tax. It's like the effect of gravity on a bird flying. Climate change was invented to get round the problem politicians have facing voters in elections. They can lie once (Pat Rabbit said it is OK to lie at election time) but not twice, so they run out of road.

    Climate change provides the hysteria to break through the problem and to bring the media on side. There is a time delay between the imposition of carbon taxes (and industry destroying measures) and voters copping onto it. In France that time delay was between the election and now. In America it was peak climate hysteria (Sept 2013) and 2016.
    No words required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    Utter lunacy and its seems ordinary processes are simply going to fail.

    Looks to me like the only immediate solution is to start crashing economies. People are not taking responsibility. No it isn't fair but life is not fair.

    There is always the option of massive investment in geo engineering to help solve the problem at the same time. It amazes me that people aren't getting their heads around what is actually happening here.
    To quote professor Michael E Mann:

    "The adults in the room know what needs to be done"

    I know, that's a bit vague, still, the way I see it is, the fossil fuels industry saw fit to deprive the world of a slow transition to efficient and renewable energy. Now, that transition needs to happen ASAP, and that may well be a shock to some systems.
    Ten years ago I heard a climatologist say "we've got to get the upward curves to go down". I've been watching those curves, going up, much to my dismay, ever since.
    It really is a sad and tragic story.
    And here's yet more bad news:

    Save millions of lives by tackling climate change, says WHO | Environment | The Guardian

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    "A Basic Pragmatic Summary of Climate Change"

    See also this report concerning some of the consequences:


    NZ is home to species found nowhere else but biodiversity losses match global crisis


    "Rather than listing species that have gone extinct, the report summarises more subtle information about the vulnerability of global biodiversity. The bottom line is that across the globe, the population sizes of the species considered have declined by an average of 60% in 40 years."

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