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Thread: Dr Peter Boylan, Maria Steen BL, Newstalk and Misinformation

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    Politics.ie Member ger12's Avatar
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    Default Dr Peter Boylan, Maria Steen BL, Newstalk and Misinformation

    Under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 a pregnancy may be terminated where there's a real and substantial risk to the life of the mother, including the risk of suicide. Where the baby has reached viability (23/24 weeks) there's a duty on the medical team ending the pregnancy to deliver the child alive if possible because of the 8th Amendment as a counter balance. This Government intends repealing this Act in the event of the referendum passing. (Link posted to Act below).


    Under head 5 of Simon Harris's proposed Bill, in the case of an immediate risk to the life of the pregnant women or of an immediate risk of serious harm to her health, including mental health, a termination may be carried out up to birth. There is no duty to deliver the child alive and only one medical practitioner needs to sign this off. (Proposed Bill linked below).


    In fact termination of pregnancy has only one definition in Simon Harris's Bill "termination of pregnancy means a medical procedure which is intended to end the life of the foetus."

    There is no mention in Simon Harris's Bill of any duty to deliver a child alive after viability.

    Dr Boylan's interview today on Newstalk contradicts these facts, he misrepresented in my opinion what Maria Steen said and he claims that Maria Steen knowingly misled people last night on Claire Byrne. He said the No side were throwing "dirt".

    https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/upl...ublication.pdf

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2...enacted/en/pdf


    He also said that where abortion is legalised that rates of abortion decline.






    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...five-year-high

    https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back...y_Show_Part_2/
    Last edited by ger12; 15th May 2018 at 10:06 PM. Reason: clarified omission
    At 12 weeks the “clump of cells” toes curl, her mouth makes sucking movements, she has a human face and if you prod the tummy she will move in response

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    I think it’s fairly obvious that the govt and the doctors want a no vote.

    Whether that is because they realize the proposed legislation is a disaster or, more likely, they never really supported yes in the first place, is academic.

    We should sue.

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    Politics.ie Member damus's Avatar
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    Bit ironic going on about the definition of a ToP when PLDPA itself provided for a termination resulting in the destruction of life of the unborn. There's nothing in that Act about accelerated delivery or viability - but yet the usual suspects had no difficulty with re-interpreting the meaning of that Act. Some even suggested that a ToP were a CS. So some would say we're being consistent and it's come full circle.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ger12 View Post
    Under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 a pregnancy may be terminated where there's a real and substantial risk to the life of the mother, including the risk of suicide. Where the baby has reached viability (23/24 weeks) there's a duty on the medical team ending the pregnancy to deliver the child alive if possible. This Government intends repealing this Act in the event of the referendum passing. (Link posted to Act below).


    Under head 5 of Simon Harris's proposed Bill, in the case of an immediate risk to the life of the pregnant women or of an immediate risk of serious harm to her health, including mental health, a termination may be carried out up to birth. There is no duty to deliver the child alive and only one medical practitioner needs to sign this off. (Proposed Bill linked below).


    In fact termination of pregnancy has only one definition in Simon Harris's Bill "termination of pregnancy means a medical procedure which is intended to end the life of the foetus."

    There is no mention in Simon Harris's Bill of any duty to deliver a child alive after viability.

    Dr Boylan's interview today on Newstalk contradicts these facts, he misrepresented in my opinion what Maria Steen said and he claims that Maria Steen knowingly misled people last night on Claire Byrne. He said the No side were throwing "dirt".

    https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/upl...ublication.pdf

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2...enacted/en/pdf


    He also said that where abortion is legalised that rates of abortion decline.






    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...five-year-high

    https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back...y_Show_Part_2/
    Head 5 is about risks that can only be averted by termination!

    5. (1) Notwithstanding the generality of Head 4, or any determination made or pending
    pursuant to Head 11 of an application under Head 8(2), it shall be lawful to carry out a
    termination of pregnancy in accordance with this Head, where a medical practitioner is of
    the reasonable opinion formed in good faith that –
    (a) there is an immediate risk to the life of, or of serious harm to the health of, the
    pregnant woman, and
    (b) it is immediately necessary to carry out the termination of pregnancy in order
    to avert that risk
    .
    I'm fascinated about what you think should happen where there is a risk to a woman's life and early delivery or caeserean will not avert that risk?
    "Ar is ed is lándíbud do cach ríg robæ, tan renas, is trúag in bríg, a fhír for in gæ" For it is utter ruin for every king ... when he barters, ... the truth for a lie.

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    Newstalk have spent the whole day on a damage limitation exercise
    after the No crowd won last night's debate!!!

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    Politics.ie Member Half Nelson's Avatar
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    Abortion up to birth is provided for in the case of perfectly healthy babies and mothers. All that's required is an unprovable and subjective assessment of immediate risk to mental health, carried out by a "medical practitioner".

    It's an absolutely horrific proposal. How could anybody even contemplate such barbarism?

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    Politics.ie Member gerhard dengler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellachán Chaisil View Post
    Head 5 is about risks that can only be averted by termination!

    5. (1) Notwithstanding the generality of Head 4, or any determination made or pending
    pursuant to Head 11 of an application under Head 8(2), it shall be lawful to carry out a
    termination of pregnancy in accordance with this Head, where a medical practitioner is of
    the reasonable opinion formed in good faith that –
    (a) there is an immediate risk to the life of, or of serious harm to the health of, the
    pregnant woman, and
    (b) it is immediately necessary to carry out the termination of pregnancy in order
    to avert that risk.
    You've managed to make Ger12's point for her.
    Politics.ie moderators should moderate instead.

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    Politics.ie Member ger12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    Bit ironic going on about the definition of a ToP when PLDPA itself provided for a termination resulting in the destruction of life of the unborn. There's nothing in that Act about accelerated delivery or viability - but yet the usual suspects had no difficulty with re-interpreting the meaning of that Act. Some even suggested that a ToP were a CS. So some would say we're being consistent and it's come full circle.
    I should have clarified in the OP (I've done so now) that this obligation results from having the counter balance of the 8th in the Constitution.
    At 12 weeks the “clump of cells” toes curl, her mouth makes sucking movements, she has a human face and if you prod the tummy she will move in response

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post
    Abortion up to birth is provided for in the case of perfectly healthy babies and mothers. All that's required is an unprovable and subjective assessment of immediate risk to mental health, carried out by a "medical practitioner".

    It's an absolutely horrific proposal. How could anybody even contemplate such barbarism?

    I mean just look at the state of this:

    8. (1) Notwithstanding the generality of section 7, or any determination made or pending
    pursuant to section 13 of an application under section 10(2), it shall be lawful to carry
    out a medical procedure in respect of a pregnant woman in accordance with this
    section in the course of which, or as a result of which, an unborn human life is ended
    where—
    (a) a medical practitioner, having examined the pregnant woman, believes in good
    faith that there is an immediate risk of loss of the woman’s life from a physical
    illness,
    (b) the medical procedure is, in his or her reasonable opinion (being an opinion
    formed in good faith which has regard to the need to preserve unborn human life
    as far as practicable) immediately necessary in order to save the life of the
    woman
    I mean absolutely disgraceful. Just one "medical practicitioner". Of course that would have to mean abortion on demand.


    Except, this is the law at the moment!
    "Ar is ed is lándíbud do cach ríg robæ, tan renas, is trúag in bríg, a fhír for in gæ" For it is utter ruin for every king ... when he barters, ... the truth for a lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ger12 View Post
    Under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 a pregnancy may be terminated where there's a real and substantial risk to the life of the mother, including the risk of suicide. Where the baby has reached viability (23/24 weeks) there's a duty on the medical team ending the pregnancy to deliver the child alive if possible because of the 8th Amendment as a counter balance. This Government intends repealing this Act in the event of the referendum passing. (Link posted to Act below).


    Under head 5 of Simon Harris's proposed Bill, in the case of an immediate risk to the life of the pregnant women or of an immediate risk of serious harm to her health, including mental health, a termination may be carried out up to birth. There is no duty to deliver the child alive and only one medical practitioner needs to sign this off. (Proposed Bill linked below).


    In fact termination of pregnancy has only one definition in Simon Harris's Bill "termination of pregnancy means a medical procedure which is intended to end the life of the foetus."

    There is no mention in Simon Harris's Bill of any duty to deliver a child alive after viability.

    Dr Boylan's interview today on Newstalk contradicts these facts, he misrepresented in my opinion what Maria Steen said and he claims that Maria Steen knowingly misled people last night on Claire Byrne. He said the No side were throwing "dirt".

    https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/upl...ublication.pdf

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2...enacted/en/pdf


    He also said that where abortion is legalised that rates of abortion decline.






    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...five-year-high

    https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back...y_Show_Part_2/
    Maybe he meant the rates of abortion decline after quadrupling first and the numbers started to refelect the decline in available mothers and fathers over time, as the cull reaped its rewards.

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