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Thread: Sexual Freedom versus Puritanism

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    Politics.ie Member Emily Davison's Avatar
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    Default Sexual Freedom versus Puritanism

    If a man puts a hand on your knee is that sexual assault. If he persists in pursuing you is that harrasmemt. Do we women need protection from this. Does that mean throwing out sexual liberation.

    http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/...9134_3232.html

    What do the men and women on p.ie think.

    It cannot have escaped anyone’s notice the Weinstein effect. Do Hollywood women really not know what the casting couch is and how to avoid it. Or is this a case of Hollywood men in power abusing it.

    There is a thought provoking backlash from, of course, the French. The difference between gallantry and abuse. To set the scene:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...nstein-scandal
    Last edited by Emily Davison; 10th January 2018 at 12:10 PM.
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    Politics.ie Member Eire1976's Avatar
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    Then you get women writing that if the man is handsome, they want to be thrown on the floor and taken hard.

    What gives?

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    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Davison View Post
    If a man puts a hand on your knee is that sexual assault. If he persists in pursuing you is that harrasmemt. Do we women need protection from this. Does that mean throwing out sexual liberation.

    What do the men and women on p.ie think.

    It cannot have escaped anyone’s notice the Weinstein effect. Do Hollywood women not really know what the casting couch is and how to avoid it. Or is this a case of Hollywood men in power abuses it.

    There is a thought provoking backlash from of course, the French. The difference between Gallentry and abuse.
    As usual there is a risk that the pendulum will swing too far. There is no doubt that male behaviour in the past was way over the line. (Donald Trump)

    We need to find a happy balance - and a good start to that will be educating young men that any sign of rejection must be heeded.

    Catherine Deneuve defends men's 'right to hit on' women

    I get where the women are coming from, but (BBC report) the language used "hit on" is part of the problem - it is suggestive of sexual aggression and force. We have concepts that need to be ditched - that a woman might be "playing hard to get" so try harder if rejected.

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    Politics.ie Member Emily Davison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eire1976 View Post
    Then you get women writing that if the man is handsome, they want to be thrown on the floor and taken hard.

    What gives?

    Why does the man have to be handsome? Yes I used to like Mills &Boon. Does that make me pre disposed to the wrong view of the matter.

    Someone just now on Pat Kenny said if he hadn’t been brave enough to out his hand on a girls knee he wouldn’t be married now.
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    Witch petaljam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eire1976 View Post
    Then you get women writing that if the man is handsome, they want to be thrown on the floor and taken hard.

    What gives?
    The operative word there is "want" though. Some men seem to think that's an optional extra. Or else that it can be taken as read. It can't, except in some people's fantasies and porn.

    But sure, if you are deciding between having sex with Harvey Weinstein or with George Clooney, it's not too hard to see which of them is at an advantage. Both would still need the woman's consent all the same.
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    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eire1976 View Post
    Then you get women writing that if the man is handsome, they want to be thrown on the floor and taken hard.

    What gives?
    It is a two way street - not all women are perfect and they need to consider what they say.

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    Politics.ie Member Emily Davison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    As usual there is a risk that the pendulum will swing too far. There is no doubt that male behaviour in the past was way over the line. (Donald Trump)

    We need to find a happy balance - and a good start to that will be educating young men that any sign of rejection must be heeded.

    Catherine Deneuve defends men's 'right to hit on' women

    I get where the women are coming from, but (BBC report) the language used "hit on" is part of the problem - it is suggestive of sexual aggression and force. We have concepts that need to be ditched - that a woman might be "playing hard to get" so try harder if rejected.

    I think we can all agree that Trump is offensive. But, some women seem to not mind, personally I did not understand that, but it seems to be true nevertheless. He’s so gross and obnoxious in my view that it’s difficult to understand.

    About educating men, do men not know what no is, it’s not my experience. But it’s also my experience that men need to be persistent. You mention any sign of rejection, us women can play hard to get, or be hard to get and need pursuing. Is that not how it works. Though one does wonder sometimes who is pursuing who.
    Last edited by Emily Davison; 10th January 2018 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Sp
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    Politics.ie Member silverharp's Avatar
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    what we are seeing now is a moral panic, at some stage it will blow over maybe in 5 or 10 years. It might get more extreme, watch out from companies like google to prevent a women being alone with men in the workplace, or possibly parents like myself advising our sons to not date girls on campus for risk of having your education ruined, don't date in the workplace for same reasons.
    It kind of depends how the law goes, there is a push to lower evidence standards and up conviction rates which wont help
    "So you think humans should run their societies like lobsters?"........ Cathy Newman C4 News

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    Politics.ie Member Emily Davison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    The operative word there is "want" though. Some men seem to think that's an optional extra. Or else that it can be taken as read. It can't, except in some people's fantasies and porn.

    But sure, if you are deciding between having sex with Harvey Weinstein or with George Clooney, it's not too hard to see which of them is at an advantage. Both would still need the woman's consent all the same.

    George might look good but might be an idiot. Weinstein, who is particularly bad looking might be charming. So I’m not sure that there is always a clear cut advantage there unless on the superficial first glance.
    A descendant of all the Witches they could not drown.

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    Politics.ie Member Emily Davison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    It is a two way street - not all women are perfect and they need to consider what they say.

    About the word hit on. Is that not correct. Can we not say it. Or what can we call it.
    A descendant of all the Witches they could not drown.

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