Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 67

Thread: Religion, Identity and Education

  1. #1
    905
    Guest

    Default Religion, Identity and Education

    On the recomendation of Tmesis I have decided to start my own thread on the thorny issue of religious teaching and education. It has been suggested that teaching children about religion at a young age is abusive. If nothing else it eliminates much of the choice a child might have in deciding about religion.

    In my opinion this is no more abusive than teaching children about nationalism. In fact nationalism has largely taken the place of religion in terms of identity. Why wasn't this trend condemned as abuse?

  2. #2

    Default

    how id different from the other thread?
    If I ask a question don't just 'like' the post, reply to it. - If I post a lot about a subject I may write a post about it at http://dublinstreams.blogspot.ie/

  3. #3
    905
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lostexpectation
    how id different from the other thread?
    :x Ask Tmesis!

    Anyway this is more about nationalism perhaps (but religious discussion tolerated); shouldn't we be educating little kids rather than making citizens or economic units out of them?

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    111
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Usually it went hand in hand with fundemental Catholism. The Christ like Blood sacrifice was an essential theme to both types of fanatic.

    The Blood sacrafice of Pearse, who started a rebellion against the orders of his own commander, in the full knowledge supposedly of victory.

    He knew bloody well that he could not win militarily, but also knew that if he could start a war, and prevoke violence on the part of the State that he could win converts to his cause.

    Nationalism is and the violence it has sought to justify is one of our sacred cows. The old tainted history taught by dangerous hateful fools, that taught a people to hate another for the wrongs of their forefathers was one of the greatest abuses of children.

    The education systen is highly charged with nationalist propaganda. The typical example was Yeate's Terrible Beauty. He was another old fool or a very pragmatic one who supplied the tpye of arty propaganda that had a ready market and got a cushy senate seat into the Bargain.

    A terrible beauty ( laying town someone elses life in the cause of Nationalism)

    He might have more aptly said " they weighed so lightly what they took" rather than gave.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member Tmesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    157
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Religion, Identity and Education

    Quote Originally Posted by 905
    On the recomendation of Tmesis I have decided to start my own thread on the thorny issue of religious teaching and education. It has been suggested that teaching children about religion at a young age is abusive. If nothing else it eliminates much of the choice a child might have in deciding about religion.

    In my opinion this is no more abusive than teaching children about nationalism. In fact nationalism has largely taken the place of religion in terms of identity. Why wasn't this trend condemned as abuse?
    Your central issue is with nationalism. How does the "abuse" manifest itself in schools? How is nationalist indoctrination similar to religious indoctrination?

  6. #6

    Default

    Ideally religion shouldnt be taught to kids, but were else will they get thier values from? Sex and the City? Paris Hilton? Brittney Spears? Bertie Ahern?
    "Are you telling me that a computer, a robot and my wife would create a "natuarlly balanced" society? The consequences are too monstrous to contemplate.."
    -farnaby.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cork City
    Posts
    934
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re Nationalism

    Does this mean all references to Nationalism that glamorizes it in any
    way in any country must be thrown out.

    Should this happen in Britain France or The United States?

    A lot of poetry music and literature would have to be dropped
    the 1812 overture anyone?

    On the question of religious studies all I can say is at the end of the
    day a lot of parents still want it.
    John in Cork ya boy ya

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member stannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Zhengzhou, China
    Posts
    198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Why wasn't this trend condemned as abuse?
    Why should it be? What else would you define as 'abuse'?

    How about cosmopolitanism and contempt for the land one was born in? Anti-nationalism, shall we say? If it leads one to hate their own country, that could be construed as abuse.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Tmesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    157
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Collective.
    Ideally religion shouldnt be taught to kids, but were else will they get thier values from? Sex and the City? Paris Hilton? Brittney Spears? Bertie Ahern?
    You're a reasonably intelligent person. You must know that you're deliberately using examples of entertainment (outside of Bertie Ahern, although some might say that he's entertainment as well) to compare to religious "morality" in order to make a very cheap point, don't you?

    Where do children who don't have a religous upbringing get their values from, do you think? Is there any evidence that people who weren't brought up to be religious are more morally deficient that their religious counterparts? Does the religion matter in your opinion? Do any and all types of religious upbringing beat no religious upbringing at all? Do you support the indoctrination of children no matter what the religion?

    And, isn't it better to teach children good morals for the sake of being a good, respected, loved person than for a highly questionably rather tenuous belief that they get some sort of reward for it in the afterlife (or are punished if they don't)?

  10. #10
    905
    Guest

    Default Re: Religion, Identity and Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Tmesis
    Your central issue is with nationalism. How does the "abuse" manifest itself in schools? How is nationalist indoctrination similar to religious indoctrination?
    Tmesis, I may know the name of Dawkin's book, but I can't remember off-hand the details of his 'abuse' claim. If you accept that nationalism is similar to religion then it follows naturally that what's allegedly abusive in one system is abusive the other.

    I have already given examples (in the other thread) of ways in which nationalism is instilled in schoolchildren.
    Were you told at any point in your education (assuming you're Irish) that you were Irish? Were you taught the national anthem; did you ever have to sing it? Were you taught about all the great heroes of the past, Wolfe Tone, Daniel O'Connell etc.?
    To which I add, were you ever expected to stand around and cheer for the president, waving little flags? Teaching Irish is also a nationalist pursuit (though I don't want this turning into an Irish language thread), much like latin was back in the day.

    Just as religion is first learned at home so too is nationalism. But as a child's first prolonged experience of a state-body school's are a major part of their nationalist indocrination. Why do think they call them national schools?

    I would like to point out here that I have no problem with nationalist indoctrination. In using the term 'abuse', I am merely parroting poor Dawkins. I just don't believe that two similar processes (both are mainly there to instill a particular identity) should be judged differently, as Dawkins presumably does.

Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •