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Thread: Taking advantage of Brexit - let's revisit 'Decentralisation'

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    That is what decentralisation means, developing one or two major centres outside Dublin, not a civil servant dancing at every crossroads.
    I'm aware of the meaning of the word. My argument is the redistribution cannot occur in a vacuum - there is a woeful insufficiency of infrastructure, population, regional government apparatus, and legislative provision at national level for dencentralised government to gain traction. In the absence of these what is the point?

    For example - Proper regional government replacing a swathe of UDCs and counties with control of the health and environmental budgets for their respective areas would be a start. Government functions related to their functions and provision would then dencentralise in a meaningful way.

  2. #72
    Politics.ie Member Lord Talbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ON THE ONE ROAD View Post
    True and true they don't have to but acknowledging that then an honest person can not use their inability to generate comparable wealth as an against them.
    You can't have equal opportunities spread evenly throughout every square mile of a country. Not even the most egalitarian societies on earth have anything close to that.

    If someone wants to succeed in a particular field that is based mainly in Dublin then guess what - move to Dublin. If not, then find something your community needs and stay there doing that. Don't go crying to the state to drag an industry to your local area at great taxpayer expense just because you don't want to move.

    Its not the state's job to tell private enterprise where to operate.
    Reform Europe

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Talbot View Post
    No. It wasn't an "audacious" idea, it was a f***ing moronic idea.

    Dublin isn't bloated, its a small city with sh*t transport and a crap planning system.

    Dublin is only bloated to pig ignorant village idiots who've never been outside their town of 10 families.

    Idiot.
    The peripheral regions in this state are being slowly strangled of long-term vitality. Dublin is lacking sufficient suitable housing and office space to become the prime magnet for an anglicised, rugbymad enforced exit from London's financial orbit. If a hard Brexit occurs - still very likely - and Dublin only captures a miniscule share of the fleeing bankers while our state succumbs to a further knockbacks from tariffs with our main market than our capital may likely further erode in promimence.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Talbot View Post
    You can't have equal opportunities spread evenly throughout every square mile of a country. Not even the most egalitarian societies on earth have anything close to that.

    If someone wants to succeed in a particular field that is based mainly in Dublin then guess what - move to Dublin. If not, then find something your community needs and stay there doing that. Don't go crying to the state to drag an industry to your local area at great taxpayer expense just because you don't want to move.

    Its not the state's job to tell private enterprise where to operate.
    Not sure who you are arguing with. Me or just making a point in general.

  5. #75
    Politics.ie Member Lord Talbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ON THE ONE ROAD View Post
    Not sure who you are arguing with. Me or just making a point in general.
    Well your point I quoted was kind of vague to begin with.
    Reform Europe

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsalaugh View Post
    The peripheral regions in this state are being slowly strangled of long-term vitality. Dublin is lacking sufficient suitable housing and office space to become the prime magnet for an anglicised, rugbymad enforced exit from London's financial orbit. If a hard Brexit occurs - still very likely - and Dublin only captures a miniscule share of the fleeing bankers while our state succumbs to a further knockbacks from tariffs with our main market than our capital may likely further erode in promimence.

    The last time there was tarrif barriers in the Irish Sea, devs protectionism there was a number of English companies that exported here set up here to beat the tarrifs and visa versa.

    To early to say what way brexit will go but in the event of hard brexit should that be the stuff to be aiming for. they, British companies, Cadburys, general motors, players wills set up here in the 30s to reach a population of 3 million, might it happen again for a population of 700 million.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Talbot View Post
    Well your point I quoted was kind of vague to begin with.
    Fair enough. You argued your point well

  8. #78
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    The crash still casts a long shadow. The housing shortage is at crisis levels, with the most recent figures showing there were just 3,500 properties to let in the entire country and just 2,800 properties for sale in Dublin, according to Marian Finnegan, chief economist at estate agent Sherry Fitzgerald.

    “This is a market in recovery and, if everyone arrived on one day, it would be a problem,” she said. “We do have a crisis in the residential sector.”

    She estimated that there were only “a couple of hundred” high-end new homes available for incoming high-rollers, including some €5m-plus penthouses at Landsdowne Place, in the shadow of the Aviva rugby stadium.

    The apartment block is emblematic of Ireland’s ability to move on from its past. It is being built on the site of two hotels in the city’s Ballsbridge area bought in the boom years by a now bankrupt builder for €400m and sold on by Ulster Bank to Chartered Land and the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund for €170m.

    In contrast to London, where prices continued to go up and up after the crash, prices in Dublin are still 30-35% off their peak. On the commercial front, the situation is different, with 335,000 square feet under construction, and just 27% pre-let and 11% reserved.

    Tim Payne, head of people and change at accountancy firm KPMG, said picking another city to move to may be the easy part compared with the “tough sell” of convincing London staff, and their families, to move.

    Indeed, HSBC is struggling even to convince enough of its staff to make the 120-mile move from London’s Docklands to the bank’s new British headquarters in Birmingham, despite offering rewards of up to 2,500.

    Meanwhile, fears that Dublin would go down the ranks of European cities because of the lack of schools have been assuaged after Nord Anglia International announced it was opening a school in September 2018 and would offer the international baccalaureate curriculum. It has yet to start enrolling pupils but has already taken more than 400 enquiries.

    JP Morgan’s Dimon has played down the idea of one location inside the EU benefiting from the fallout of Brexit but he warned that could change as 75% of the activity JP Morgan conducts in the UK was for EU companies.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business...location-plans

    Major dearth of suitable office space may be greater hanicap to Dublin reaping the bonanza the likely hard Brexit could herald. Putting on 'their green jerseys' wouldnt our civil service be able to adjust temporarialy to a warehouse in an Irish provincial town allowing Mention Sq etc to be bait for the refined tastes of London's fleeing b\nkers. Anyone else got suggestions to take pole position over our continental rivals?

    And according to Bloomberg it's Frankfurt that is primed to take the bulk of the 30k financial jobs displaced by a hard Brexit with Dublin lagging well to the rear.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/
    Last edited by Itsalaugh; 16th July 2017 at 12:25 PM.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    Decentralisation is a good idea if planned and implemented properly but its worth remembering that there are approx 30,000 civil servants, even if half were moved, its not a huge number if spread thinly.
    We actually need to change how we approach this issue.

    Like in most regional development agendas, advocates tend to call for approaches that have already been tried and failed.

    We already have decentralised the civil service.
    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2017-07-13a.608

    The proportion of civil servants working outside Dublin is now just over 50%.
    We did it. It didn't work.

    An interesting question might be to ask why people seem so unaware of this.
    However, banks know they have a duty of care to their clients and I'm sure that this should prevent them lending irresponsibly.

    George Lee 2 June 2006

    Ziggy

  10. #80
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    Worth another look

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