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Thread: Referendum needed to prevent unfunded runaway public sector pensions entitlements that are now treble the bank bailout

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    Default Referendum needed to prevent unfunded runaway public sector pensions entitlements that are now treble the bank bailout

    Those pension entitlements of gardai,nurses, teachers and civil servants are estimated by actuaries to be worth about €120 billion in today's money. That is about treble the €40 billion bank bailout which enraged the public. Compared to that, the savings from the referendum on judges' pay were peanuts.

    Traditionally, those pensions have been paid on a pay-as-you-go basis from taxation and borrowing. While that burden was tolerable in a young work force supporting relatively few pensioners, it will require crippling taxation in about 15 years when there will be about two workers for every dependent person including pensioners. Many of those future workers will be earning low incomes, so the burden will have to be carried by maybe 1.5 workers per dependent, some of them earning after tax incomes less than many pensions. This situation is shaping up to be a socially unjust,massive intergenerational transfer of incomes. Young people under the age of forty should be angered by this. Some US cities have already been ruined financially by pensions of local government workers, including police and fire services, which should be a red flag for all governments.

    An insidious feature of Irish public sector pensions is that pensions rise automatically with the pay of the job once held. In most advanced economies,public sector pensions rise with inflation (though not private sector pensions) and an increase above inflation is given depending on circumstances, which helps prevent runaway pension costs.

    In Ireland, the government can't be trusted to prevent runaway pension costs because the salaries of government ministers are tied to the salaries of civil service department heads. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    So only a referendum is likely to prevent runaway pensions. In the future, a threat of sovereign debt default would allow the government to plead fiscal necessity and cut pensions under the constitution but it is best to avoid that.

    The referendum should abolish the pension entitlement to pay increases in line with the job once held, to be substituted for pension increases in line with the old age pension or general inflation at the discretion of the government. Trade unions shouldn't get too militant over that.

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    Politics.ie Member SilverSpurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Those pension entitlements of gardai,nurses, teachers and civil servants are estimated by actuaries to be worth about €120 billion in today's money. That is about treble the €40 billion bank bailout which enraged the public. Compared to that, the savings from the referendum on judges' pay were peanuts.

    Traditionally, those pensions have been paid on a pay-as-you-go basis from taxation and borrowing. While that burden was tolerable in a young work force supporting relatively few pensioners, it will require crippling taxation in about 15 years when there will be about two workers for every dependent person including pensioners. Many of those future workers will be earning low incomes, so the burden will have to be carried by maybe 1.5 workers per dependent, some of them earning after tax incomes less than many pensions. This situation is shaping up to be a socially unjust,massive intergenerational transfer of incomes. Young people under the age of forty should be angered by this. Some US cities have already been ruined financially by pensions of local government workers, including police and fire services, which should be a red flag for all governments.

    An insidious feature of Irish public sector pensions is that pensions rise automatically with the pay of the job once held. In most advanced economies,public sector pensions rise with inflation (though not private sector pensions) and an increase above inflation is given depending on circumstances, which helps prevent runaway pension costs.

    In Ireland, the government can't be trusted to prevent runaway pension costs because the salaries of government ministers are tied to the salaries of civil service department heads. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

    So only a referendum is likely to prevent runaway pensions. In the future, a threat of sovereign debt default would allow the government to plead fiscal necessity and cut pensions under the constitution but it is best to avoid that.

    The referendum should abolish the pension entitlement to pay increases in line with the job once held, to be substituted for pension increases in line with the old age pension or general inflation at the discretion of the government. Trade unions shouldn't get too militant over that.
    I have always said that the public sector unions are the biggest vested interest of all. We need a referendum on compulsory redundancies too!

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    I have been saying that the bank bailout roughly €60 Billion, some of which we will actually even get back is just a pussy tickle relative relative to the absolute complete anal raping in store for Irish people with the insane Apartheidal levels of pension entilements at approx € 180 Billion and ever increasing for our by and large work shy vastly under performing and hugely privileged so call public sector class!
    They are quite simply ultimately to a man and a woman lotto winners and this can only happen by them riding the holes red raw of everyone else!
    The Swedish Anti Sex Worker Model Destroys Sex Workers And That's A Known Consequence By Its Supporters!

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpurs View Post
    I have always said that the public sector unions are the biggest vested interest of all. We need a referendum on compulsory redundancies too!
    And there is a massive cruel irony that most trade union members are private sector workers who are the very ones being ridden red raw up the jacksy by their employers and the public sector insider rubbish lotto winners!
    The Swedish Anti Sex Worker Model Destroys Sex Workers And That's A Known Consequence By Its Supporters!

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    Politics.ie Member ted08's Avatar
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    Referenda are there to amend the constitution. This sounds like a policy or budgetary proposal.

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    could all this be a reason for the shinner hatered, keep them out because the will hit us over this

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpurs View Post
    I have always said that the public sector unions are the biggest vested interest of all. We need a referendum on compulsory redundancies too!
    Redundancies can cost more than retaining ps workers on full pay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ted08 View Post
    Referenda are there to amend the constitution. This sounds like a policy or budgetary proposal.
    The judges' pay referendum was budgetary in a sense.

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    Politics.ie Member PBP voter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by im axeled View Post
    could all this be a reason for the shinner hatered, keep them out because the will hit us over this
    SF are populist and would back the teachers,nurses,Gardai etc.
    We appreciate the move by the Government today and remind ourselves that it is a bail-out by taxpayers for the banks. Pearse Doherty

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBP voter View Post
    SF are populist and would back the teachers,nurses,Gardai etc.
    Ironic that Shinners would support The Piggies!
    The tide will turn because the wages, terms and conditions and pensions of 'Public Sector' workers 10% of the workforce are unsustainable. it's quite simply insiders leeching off the backs of an impoverished general public!
    The Swedish Anti Sex Worker Model Destroys Sex Workers And That's A Known Consequence By Its Supporters!

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