Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 29 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 287

Thread: QUB Students reject Irish unity

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member DeGaulle 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Baile Átha Cliath
    Posts
    2,001
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default QUB Students reject Irish unity

    QUB Students Union held a referendum on whether there should be a United Ireland recently - on 27th October to be precise. The referendum was promoted by Sinn Féin. The referendum was opposed and boycotted by unionists. The SDLP supported it and the Alliance party, as would be expected, took a neutral stance.

    The question asked was: "Should Ireland be a united and independent country?"
    The results were:
    In favour: 1,264 (49.6%)
    Against: 1,285 (50.4%)

    Students voted overwhelmingly for a separate motion:
    "This Students' Union is a shared space that is inclusive for all students and should therefore have a neutral stance on the constitutional position of Northern Ireland - do you agree with this statement?"

    A few observations ...

    Mathematically the results are disastrous for a real border poll. Unionists allegedly boycotted the vote, but if 20% of participants were unionists who all voted against unity, then this means that non-unionists voted 5:3 in favour of unity. If this is how people voted in the real border poll, then there would not be a united Ireland until the unionist electorate was less than 25%. This was an overwhelmingly nationalist electorate - even a victory by 5% or 10% is in reality a massive defeat for unity.

    Social media utterly failed ... was there even a No campaign? The QUBUnityRef twitter feed is here:
    https://twitter.com/search?q=QUBUnityRef

    Is this the right way to go about promoting a united Ireland? Is there a QUB debating society similar to the L&H or Oxford Union - would it not be better to stage an annual or biennial debate and to invite representatives from business, sport, politics etc. to propose or oppose the motion? Imagine the publicity if, for example, you had people like Rory McIlroy addressing the debate.

    To achieve Irish unity in a border poll will require substantial support from the "unionist community" - SF/SDLP voters will not deliver Irish unity. Do we need to desectarianise NI to achieve a united Ireland? Are Alliance and the Greens the real forces for Irish Unity?

    Is this the end of SF's campaign for a border poll? I have never seen the point of calling for a referendum you know you are going to lose. My own opinion is that a nationalist majority in Stormont (ie. more nationalists than unionists) should trigger a border poll but there is no point in have one before then.

    Any comments about the vote from QUB students?

    Links
    Queen's University Students' Union stays neutral as Sinn Fein Irish unity motion fails - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
    Referenda at QUB: opinion from both campaigns |
    Fermanagh students
    https://hoganletters.wordpress.com/2...-ref-vote-yes/
    Vive le Québec libre ! Ag beathú na dtochardán ón mbliain 2007.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member between the bridges's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    skintown
    Posts
    44,690
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    It was fixed by Mi5...
    Nec Aspera Terrent..Is Tuaisceart-Éireannach mé. Má tá meas agat ar mo chultúr, beidh meas agam ar do chultúr.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    665
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeGaulle 2.0 View Post
    QUB Students Union held a referendum on whether there should be a United Ireland recently - on 27th October to be precise. The referendum was promoted by Sinn Féin. The referendum was opposed and boycotted by unionists. The SDLP supported it and the Alliance party, as would be expected, took a neutral stance.

    The question asked was: "Should Ireland be a united and independent country?"
    The results were:
    In favour: 1,264 (49.6%)
    Against: 1,285 (50.4%)

    Students voted overwhelmingly for a separate motion:
    "This Students' Union is a shared space that is inclusive for all students and should therefore have a neutral stance on the constitutional position of Northern Ireland - do you agree with this statement?"

    A few observations ...

    Mathematically the results are disastrous for a real border poll. Unionists allegedly boycotted the vote, but if 20% of participants were unionists who all voted against unity, then this means that non-unionists voted 5:3 in favour of unity. If this is how people voted in the real border poll, then there would not be a united Ireland until the unionist electorate was less than 25%. This was an overwhelmingly nationalist electorate - even a victory by 5% or 10% is in reality a massive defeat for unity.

    Social media utterly failed ... was there even a No campaign? The QUBUnityRef twitter feed is here:
    https://twitter.com/search?q=QUBUnityRef

    Is this the right way to go about promoting a united Ireland? Is there a QUB debating society similar to the L&H or Oxford Union - would it not be better to stage an annual or biennial debate and to invite representatives from business, sport, politics etc. to propose or oppose the motion? Imagine the publicity if, for example, you had people like Rory McIlroy addressing the debate.

    To achieve Irish unity in a border poll will require substantial support from the "unionist community" - SF/SDLP voters will not deliver Irish unity. Do we need to desectarianise NI to achieve a united Ireland? Are Alliance and the Greens the real forces for Irish Unity?

    Is this the end of SF's campaign for a border poll? I have never seen the point of calling for a referendum you know you are going to lose. My own opinion is that a nationalist majority in Stormont (ie. more nationalists than unionists) should trigger a border poll but there is no point in have one before then.

    Any comments about the vote from QUB students?

    Links
    Queen's University Students' Union stays neutral as Sinn Fein Irish unity motion fails - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
    Referenda at QUB: opinion from both campaigns |
    Fermanagh students
    https://hoganletters.wordpress.com/2...-ref-vote-yes/
    I like what you have written,sensible,reasoned,well argued,pragmatic and intelligently put,brace yourself for abuse from those that thought that killing people was the way to achieve their utopian pipe dream,something that even a clever teenager knows to be a pipedream according to the result of the poll,a like to the republican that comes up with the best conspiracy theory to explain away the result .

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member Global Justice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ulster - Unrepentant Fenian Bastard
    Posts
    13,504
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by all the best View Post
    I like what you have written,sensible,reasoned,well argued,pragmatic and intelligently put,brace yourself for abuse from those that thought that killing people was the way to achieve their utopian pipe dream
    Like how the British violently and unjustly conquered Ireland and sustained the colonial-imperialist rule via repression, blackmail, murder, famines, terror and discrimination and then have the gall to glorify, celebrate and commemorate it in the most sectarian and provocative manner.

    You amnesiac unionists make me laugh, you really do

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeGaulle 2.0 View Post
    QUB Students Union held a referendum on whether there should be a United Ireland recently - on 27th October to be precise. The referendum was promoted by Sinn Féin. The referendum was opposed and boycotted by unionists. The SDLP supported it and the Alliance party, as would be expected, took a neutral stance.

    The question asked was: "Should Ireland be a united and independent country?"
    The results were:
    In favour: 1,264 (49.6%)
    Against: 1,285 (50.4%)

    Students voted overwhelmingly for a separate motion:
    "This Students' Union is a shared space that is inclusive for all students and should therefore have a neutral stance on the constitutional position of Northern Ireland - do you agree with this statement?"

    A few observations ...

    Mathematically the results are disastrous for a real border poll. Unionists allegedly boycotted the vote, but if 20% of participants were unionists who all voted against unity, then this means that non-unionists voted 5:3 in favour of unity. If this is how people voted in the real border poll, then there would not be a united Ireland until the unionist electorate was less than 25%. This was an overwhelmingly nationalist electorate - even a victory by 5% or 10% is in reality a massive defeat for unity.

    Social media utterly failed ... was there even a No campaign? The QUBUnityRef twitter feed is here:
    https://twitter.com/search?q=QUBUnityRef

    Is this the right way to go about promoting a united Ireland? Is there a QUB debating society similar to the L&H or Oxford Union - would it not be better to stage an annual or biennial debate and to invite representatives from business, sport, politics etc. to propose or oppose the motion? Imagine the publicity if, for example, you had people like Rory McIlroy addressing the debate.

    To achieve Irish unity in a border poll will require substantial support from the "unionist community" - SF/SDLP voters will not deliver Irish unity. Do we need to desectarianise NI to achieve a united Ireland? Are Alliance and the Greens the real forces for Irish Unity?

    Is this the end of SF's campaign for a border poll? I have never seen the point of calling for a referendum you know you are going to lose. My own opinion is that a nationalist majority in Stormont (ie. more nationalists than unionists) should trigger a border poll but there is no point in have one before then.

    Any comments about the vote from QUB students?

    Links
    Queen's University Students' Union stays neutral as Sinn Fein Irish unity motion fails - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
    Referenda at QUB: opinion from both campaigns |
    Fermanagh students
    https://hoganletters.wordpress.com/2...-ref-vote-yes/
    I don't think you can read too much into this to be honest. I'd have abstained on this even though I support a united Ireland. The motion had no place in a Union meant to to represent students from both sides.

  6. #6

    Default

    To add to that, you've got a point re Sinn Fein. They are hated by the vast majority of Protestants and their presence on the political stage detracts from selling the unification objective to that electorate, even the most moderate of them. I don't think that the same is true of the SDLP though, who are generally seen as reasonable.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member NorthernIrish6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,024
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Ultimately this poll showed people from a Nationalist background will vote against a UI, and this was a chance to endorse it without the risks! This has showed what various polls show.

    What a bizarre situation, SF.... The spearheads of a UI will never ever deliver one and the DUP will never bring about a shared Northern Ireland which would consolidate NI's constitutional future.
    Northern Ireland in 2011 - |British = 722,000||Northern Irish = 380,000||British and N.Irish = 112,000| |Irish = 457,000|

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member DeGaulle 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Baile Átha Cliath
    Posts
    2,001
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma Variations View Post
    I don't think you can read too much into this to be honest. I'd have abstained on this even though I support a united Ireland. The motion had no place in a Union meant to to represent students from both sides.
    You may be right - student politics are not to to be taken too seriously!
    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma Variations View Post
    To add to that, you've got a point re Sinn Fein. They are hated by the vast majority of Protestants and their presence on the political stage detracts from selling the unification objective to that electorate, even the most moderate of them. I don't think that the same is true of the SDLP though, who are generally seen as reasonable.
    NI seems to be in a sectarian straitjacket and there does not seem to be any way out (what would happen if the Others became the biggest group in Stormont?) Perhaps, if Stormont cannot find a solution to the financial crisis, the civil servants might step in and introduce water charges, knowing that there will be huge opposition, but in the hope that it might spark genuine cross-community politics ... or perhaps that's too Machievellian ....
    Vive le Québec libre ! Ag beathú na dtochardán ón mbliain 2007.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernIrish6 View Post
    Ultimately this poll showed people from a Nationalist background will vote against a UI, and this was a chance to endorse it without the risks! This has showed what various polls show.

    What a bizarre situation, SF.... The spearheads of a UI will never ever deliver one and the DUP will never bring about a shared Northern Ireland which would consolidate NI's constitutional future.
    In 40 years time most of the generation who actually have coherent memories of the troubles will be dead. Hopefully both parties will have transformed themselves and the UI debate will be focused on the most important political consideration for people in normal democracies - what will make them financially better off.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeGaulle 2.0 View Post
    You may be right - student politics are not to to be taken too seriously!

    NI seems to be in a sectarian straitjacket and there does not seem to be any way out (what would happen if the Others became the biggest group in Stormont?) Perhaps, if Stormont cannot find a solution to the financial crisis, the civil servants might step in and introduce water charges, knowing that there will be huge opposition, but in the hope that it might spark genuine cross-community politics ... or perhaps that's too Machievellian ....
    We are in a sectarian straitjacket for now certainly. Contempt for the traditions and aspirations of the other side wins votes. For many people here politics is just a race to the bottom.
    Water charges are inevitable now anyway, and we will accept it because we have no other choice.

Page 1 of 29 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •