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Thread: Economist: Budget deficit levels for 2013

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    Default Economist: Budget deficit levels for 2013

    By comparison, the USA is at -7.7% of GDP which would put it as one of the dark red states along with the UK and Spain. Japan is at -9.1% of GDP.



    A few interesting things to note:
    -The PIIGS have managed to reduce their deficits quite succesfully, we now have a lower deficit level than the UK, USA and Japan
    -Ireland's deficit has also shrank considerably, yet our GDP has been growing for two years straight
    -Astronomically high deficit in the UK, which is usually considered relatively OK economy wise
    -Italy, one of the PIIGS, has a very sustainable deficit level
    -Greece's deficit is quite sane (without interest, they actually have a surplus)

    Source:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...-economy-guide

    And a list for the whole world (2012):
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2222.html
    Last edited by feedmelies; 3rd June 2013 at 12:57 AM.

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    Thanks for this feedmelies.

    Although you could have provided links to back up your points beneath the infographic.
    I was ready to love the world, but no one understood me, so I learned to hate.
    - Mikhail Lermontov

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    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Japan been in minus numbers for how long now???????
    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

    ALBERT EINSTEIN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior of Destiny View Post
    Thanks for this feedmelies.

    Although you could have provided links to back up your points beneath the infographic.
    Apologies, added the source.
    Quote Originally Posted by spidermom View Post
    Japan been in minus numbers for how long now???????

    A very long time, their debt to GDP is over 200% (Compared to 110% in the USA and about 80% in the EU)

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    Quote Originally Posted by spidermom View Post
    Japan been in minus numbers for how long now???????
    20 years at least.

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    Greece had a huge chunk of its debt forgiven. There is huge massaging of figures also.



    D

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuineEile View Post
    Greece had a huge chunk of its debt forgiven. There is huge massaging of figures also.



    D
    This is deficit not debt. Do you have any evidence for the latter statement?

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    Interesting alright. The UK's situation since 2008 has been much worse than you'd think cos the meeja keep quiet about it. I suppose the assumption has been that they have some control over their own currency so they have more options, but they are racking up eye-watering amounts of debt and are possibly the worst can-kickers of all. I wouldn't be surprised to see the can run out of road and a major day of reckoning within 5 years.

    The figures are GDP - as always, Ireland is a special case here and GDP is largely meaningless. Only in Ireland is the GDP/GNP gap so extreme, what is it these days, about 18% of a difference? In most countries it's around 2%. If we used GNP then Ireland is still deep red and still in deep trouble. Spain is only starting to fess up to their problems and youth unemployment is over 50% - it'll get a lot worse in Spain before it gets any better.

    Portugal, Greece and Italy though do seem to be in not as bad a shape as their PIIGSiness implies.

    The Netherlands are sliding rapidly over the last 6 months, rumours of serious trouble coming down the tracks for them. I'd see them losing their "core" "prudent" tag fairly soon.

    I suspect in 2 or 3 years it'll be Ireland, UK, Spain and Netherlands, possibly with France that are the countries in crisis mode, while Italy and Greece and possibly Portugal might have clawed their way out of danger...is the European economic divide about to switch from north/south to west/east?

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    From the article.

    "Despite these improvements, government debt levels are worryingly high in the periphery. Despite a bond buyback late last year and the writedown of over half of privately held debt in March 2012, Greek debt will reach 175% of GDP by the end of this year, an untenable burden. Although Greece is being helped by interest deferral and maturity extension along with very low interest rates, it needs a further restructuring, this time of official debt. Italy’s debt burden continues to rise, to 131% of GDP this year, and debt in Ireland and Portugal is forecast to reach 123%."


    In other words our spending is nearly under control, it is our bank debt that is going to send us back to the Stone Age.

    D

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    Quote Originally Posted by spidermom View Post
    Japan been in minus numbers for how long now???????
    About 1991 IIRC! Carrying vast amounts of debt with a rapidly declining population. I think most of the debt is actually owned to the Japanese, punters and corporations, so they can fluff and can-kick, but like the UK eventually they are going to hit a wall especially with the declining demographics.

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