Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 24 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 231

Thread: Can bicycles get Ireland out of the crisis?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,996
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Can bicycles get Ireland out of the crisis?

    I would suggest that bicycles have the potential to save Ireland from its mess, or at least contribute heavily to getting through this crisis.

    For countries like France, Germany and Italy, car-dependency is a swings-and-roundabouts issue. On the con side, they are at the mercy of the vagaries of the oil markets, and are currently suffering as all the new oil finds are in low-volume, high-cost shale-oil pockets, and this suffering will continue until someone finds a new Saudi Arabia of easy-to-extract, high-quality, high-volume oil.

    On the pro side, they have an important automobile industry, so any attempt to switch to cycling has the potential to undermine that industry.

    But for Ireland, it's all con, economically. Every car we import is a massive flow of funds out of the country. Every car guzzles down ever-more-expensive foreign oil. For some, it's a totally necessary expense.

    But for many, it's a luxury that they permit themselves, despite much better options being available. We all know very fat people who work five miles away from their homes, but drive there alone in their cars every day, befouling the air, damaging the roads, blocking the streets. They sit in traffic, wasting their time (which is arguably none of my business), and wasting the time of other road users (which is definitely my business).

    Let's do a quick calculation of how much Ireland (the economy as a whole, not the government) would save in imported fuel and if every worker who lives fewer than 5 miles from their workplace were to cycle to work rather than drive.

    The main areas of savings would be fuel consumption, need to replace cars (the milage will go down, therefore there'd be no need to replace a car every 5 years) and time lost to sitting in traffic jams (people can earn more money by taking on overtime, or businesses can require their workers to do extra hours, which makes them more profitable and thus pay more taxes to lower our deficit.) Business deliveries will become quicker thanks to a reduction in traffic jams, which will make our economy more dynamic.

    I strongly sense that the most fanatical austerians will suddenly come over all Krugman-esque when this proposal to reduce our deficit without spending anything comes up for discussion.
    When you see the words "Mises" or "Hayek" in someone's post, just ask yourself: do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?

    You have to pity the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories. I find the following to be the saddest words on the internet: "Re: connection between Bilderberg puppet lady gaga and viral outbreak in ukraine "

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    26,299
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Give me strength

  3. #3

    Default

    I don't think you've thought this through.
    The difference between libertarians and socialism is that libertarians tolerate socialist communities but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community David Boaz

  4. #4
    Dylan2010
    Guest

    Default

    OP, get yourself a copy of Sims and be done with it

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    4,226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    I would suggest that bicycles have the potential to save Ireland from its mess, or at least contribute heavily to getting through this crisis.

    For countries like France, Germany and Italy, car-dependency is a swings-and-roundabouts issue. On the con side, they are at the mercy of the vagaries of the oil markets, and are currently suffering as all the new oil finds are in low-volume, high-cost shale-oil pockets, and this suffering will continue until someone finds a new Saudi Arabia of easy-to-extract, high-quality, high-volume oil.

    On the pro side, they have an important automobile industry, so any attempt to switch to cycling has the potential to undermine that industry.

    But for Ireland, it's all con, economically. Every car we import is a massive flow of funds out of the country. Every car guzzles down ever-more-expensive foreign oil. For some, it's a totally necessary expense.

    But for many, it's a luxury that they permit themselves, despite much better options being available. We all know very fat people who work five miles away from their homes, but drive there alone in their cars every day, befouling the air, damaging the roads, blocking the streets. They sit in traffic, wasting their time (which is arguably none of my business), and wasting the time of other road users (which is definitely my business).

    Let's do a quick calculation of how much Ireland (the economy as a whole, not the government) would save in imported fuel and if every worker who lives fewer than 5 miles from their workplace were to cycle to work rather than drive.

    The main areas of savings would be fuel consumption, need to replace cars (the milage will go down, therefore there'd be no need to replace a car every 5 years) and time lost to sitting in traffic jams (people can earn more money by taking on overtime, or businesses can require their workers to do extra hours, which makes them more profitable and thus pay more taxes to lower our deficit.) Business deliveries will become quicker thanks to a reduction in traffic jams, which will make our economy more dynamic.

    I strongly sense that the most fanatical austerians will suddenly come over all Krugman-esque when this proposal to reduce our deficit without spending anything comes up for discussion.
    How would you redistribute the tax burden, to recover all the taxes currently derived from motoring taxes, in this new utopia of bicycles?

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member LamportsEdge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    21,912
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    This is going to happen anyway. Notice the increase in bicycle racks around urban areas? Preparation for fuel prices to go through the roof. Of course in Ireland the wealthy will still drive but it is back to the fifties for everyone else.

    Huge increase in cycling in urban areas around Europe- London and the UK generally there is a boom in interest partly due to the Bradley Wiggins effect and the speed cycling medals at the Olympics.

    The middle class seem to be taking to it big time and the prices in the bicycle shops for hybrid racer/chunky bikes reflects that. Bicycle accessory stuff must be booming... staycations and holiday downsizing along with better bicycle pathways at tourist spots is helping as well.
    Whenever understanding exists, accepting or rejecting is unnecessary. (Fundamentals of a Gnostic Education).

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In the Bunker...Returning Fire!
    Posts
    29,323
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    While we are at it, let's chuck out our TV's, Ipads and Androids. Feck it...hopscotch is all we need. Or is that foreign too?
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

  8. #8

    Default

    You know it's funny to me...

    The OP's sig asks the question "do I really want to ban paper money and go back to gold?"
    It's particularly interesting when every thread he starts is about austerity. Well, has the OP ever asked himself why there is a so much debt to begin with? Give me strength.
    The difference between libertarians and socialism is that libertarians tolerate socialist communities but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community David Boaz

  9. #9
    Dylan2010
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    While we are at it, let's chuck out our TV's, Ipads and Androids. Feck it...hopscotch is all we need. Or is that foreign too?
    yeah sure feck it, all you need is a bag of spuds a week, give the rest of your money to the gubberment and we'll be happy out

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by feargach View Post
    I would suggest that bicycles have the potential to save Ireland from its mess, or at least contribute heavily to getting through this crisis.

    For countries like France, Germany and Italy, car-dependency is a swings-and-roundabouts issue. On the con side, they are at the mercy of the vagaries of the oil markets, and are currently suffering as all the new oil finds are in low-volume, high-cost shale-oil pockets, and this suffering will continue until someone finds a new Saudi Arabia of easy-to-extract, high-quality, high-volume oil.

    On the pro side, they have an important automobile industry, so any attempt to switch to cycling has the potential to undermine that industry.

    But for Ireland, it's all con, economically. Every car we import is a massive flow of funds out of the country. Every car guzzles down ever-more-expensive foreign oil. For some, it's a totally necessary expense.

    But for many, it's a luxury that they permit themselves, despite much better options being available. We all know very fat people who work five miles away from their homes, but drive there alone in their cars every day, befouling the air, damaging the roads, blocking the streets. They sit in traffic, wasting their time (which is arguably none of my business), and wasting the time of other road users (which is definitely my business).

    Let's do a quick calculation of how much Ireland (the economy as a whole, not the government) would save in imported fuel and if every worker who lives fewer than 5 miles from their workplace were to cycle to work rather than drive.

    The main areas of savings would be fuel consumption, need to replace cars (the milage will go down, therefore there'd be no need to replace a car every 5 years) and time lost to sitting in traffic jams (people can earn more money by taking on overtime, or businesses can require their workers to do extra hours, which makes them more profitable and thus pay more taxes to lower our deficit.) Business deliveries will become quicker thanks to a reduction in traffic jams, which will make our economy more dynamic.

    I strongly sense that the most fanatical austerians will suddenly come over all Krugman-esque when this proposal to reduce our deficit without spending anything comes up for discussion.
    I can't source the figure, but I understand three per cent if Ireland's economy, at its height, was in vehicle sales alone.

    If you wonder why, have a consider the cartels (exempt from European and Irish competition law) who sell the cars. Economists calculate that criminal price-fixing adds about 3,000 to the price of every vehicle sold in the country (and we complain about VRT why?). There have been a couple of convictions, where the criminals kept detailed written records of their crimes, which were uncovered.

    There was no jail time handed down, and the highest fine was a pathetic 12,000, considering the hundreds of millions ripped off from consumers over the years. That is the strength of the lobby you are up against.

    Quote Originally Posted by IbrahaimMohamad View Post
    How would you redistribute the tax burden, to recover all the taxes currently derived from motoring taxes, in this new utopia of bicycles?
    So you are basically saying that any money not spent on cars evaporates from the economy?

    There are two issues here that you are confusing. One is the trade balance, the other government deficit. Clearly any shift away from cars improves Ireland's trade balance, since the vast bulk of motoring spending goes straight out of the country.

    Since motoring taken as a whole is a large net beneficiary from the exchequer, relative to other types of spending, this is likely to improve the deficit too.
    Here's How, Ireland's political, social and current affairs podcast; Call the show on 076 603 5060 to record your contribution for the next show.

Page 1 of 24 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •