This is an offshoot of the vegan ireland thread, I think it deserves a specific thread all on its own. I have posted a link in the other thread to it, as I want the others involved in it to discuss the specific issues of this. I have a feeling this may turn out to be quite controversial, and in a way, I have a tinge of guilt, because this does expose and discuss the motives and backgrounds of certain figures. To those people, firstly, I hope you take it in the right frame, I hope you can see this as an attempt to be open and honest, and I hope, you participate in the debate itself, and offer frank an open discussion on this.
From my own perspective, I have two overlying interests in this topic. The first, being that I am a parent, my children are of a young age, attending both primary and secondary schools, and I am concerned about this type of program. The second is, that I do particiapte in hunting activities, I eat the meat that I hunt, and so does my family, I raise my own animals for food also, including chickens, eggs, turkeys etc. The hunting aspect is not relevent to this discussion, ,as hunting is nto even discussed, in the presentation, it is primarily about farming, and veganism etc. Now all of the above is in the interests of being open about any potential "bias" I may have, so to speak.
So, now to the issue.
There is an organisation called Animal Education Outreach ANIMAL EDUCATION OUTREACH - Home They from what i can see, "Animal Rights Advocates" with a number of well known (in the AR circles) individuals invovled or leading the group. The aim of the project is to give school talks to pre, primary, and secondary school kids, about animal rights. They are not in anyway secretive about it, and the site looks quite professional from the perspective of content etc.
As mentioned, they have given talks to schools, at varying different levels, and some of them have been published on line. The links to some of the material are enclosed below, which include a powerpoint presentation, and an audio recording of the session. Kudos to the organisation for at least being open about both of these.
The links to the sessions are Dublin's Vegan Animal Rights Bulletin: Dublin Animal Rights School Talk, Jan 2013
I would encourage people to have a look and a listen (although the audio recording is quite long at 1 hr 16 minutes), to get their own opinion.
The presentation was created and given by Roger Yates, a UCD lecturer, with some history and background that would be of concern to many. According to his wiki page, he was a former Press Officer for a section of the ALF in the UK, was sentenced and served 4 years in jail when police raided a house he was in, and found evidence of incendary devices etc. I will say no more than that, and leave people to do their own further research on him if they wish.
In addition to Roger, the group presenting the talk also included Bernie Wright (a prominant animal rights advocate, again, I will say no more, and leave people to google and research her further if they wish), and a guy from Vegan Ireland by the name of Rob (didnt catch his second name).
There are a multitude of animal rights groupings in ireland, and roger and bernie seem to be invovled in a significant number of them, and as I understand they are also heavily involved in Vegan Ireland..
The presentation I understand was intially requested to be around fur farming, I am not sure where it originated from, but fur farming ended up being a relatively small part of the session, which mostly concentrated on animal rights. A signifcant amount of time was given on the benefits of veganism, including the benefits of a vegan diet, and the dangers/risk of a non vegan diet. As far as I am aware, none of the grouping giving the presentation were dieticians etc,.
I will give some quotes and references from the audio session, for information. I have tried not to take anything out of context, and the audio session is abvoe for anyone interested to make sure they can see for themselves, but I have highlighted a number of issues that I thibnk are worrying that were said or discussed.
They are not word for word, some are just references, and some are actual quotes:-
Roger Yates:- Every sec 3,000 animals are slaughtered for meat! (conservative estimate)
Roger Yates :-Big industrial enterprise where we kill animals in great numbers
Roger Yates discusses the "Animal Holocost", and references a number of individuals, youtibe clips and books, such as "Holocost on your plate,"avid Sztybel, the "Holocost comparison project (tells people to google it and provides youtube link),
Roger Yates quotes Isac Singer, victim of holocost who escaped, who said all people to aninmals are Nazis.
Roger Yates quotes Theodore odono (not sure if spelling is correct), and exiled german Jew, who said "Auswitch begins whenever someone looks at a slaughter house, and thinks they are only animals."
As long as their are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields
The final holocaust reference, which I beleive is Rogers own comparison, is where he says the comparison is innacurate because “Animal holocaust, not very accurate, because Nazis were trying to eradicate jews and other groups, such as jews, gypsies, homosexuals, AND THOSE THEY REGARDED AS INFERIOR.. With animals we do not want to eradicate them, we breed them to exploit them, so thats where the animal holocaust comparison falls down a little bit”
Roger Yates:- Some people have a problem emphasising with people, and with animals. US police dept link between people who abuse animals, and graduate to other things.
Roger YatesProblem for veganism is not nutrition, and not health. Veganism is one of the most healthy diets you can have
Lot of vegans involved in extreme sports, vegans tend to win. A lot of triathletes are vegan, carl lewis was on vegan diet when training.
B12 SUPPLEMENT ISSUE. Most people say b12 is derived from meat, but it is from bacteria it comes from, and the reason B12 is in meat, is because meat is rotting flesh, bull of bacteria!
Youtube home project, watch it, it is about the environment and our impact on the world.
In the home project they say that our planet has got 10 years left, that means that your not going to get to be parents probably
It means the children now being born are not going to get the chance to be parents unless we do something about it.
Stealing milk from baby cows, Kill them at birth or put them into veal units.
Some other quotes, not from Roger, but I think from Bernie, its difficult to tell at times, so apologies if I am wrong on this
Most people that care about animals are vegan or vegetarian.
People feel strongly about abortion, and not about animals
I went vegetarian first because I didn’t know about the dairy industry and the cruelty involved in that.
I think these words were from the guy called Rod:-
cheap leather is cat and dog leather from china!!
[B][U]Plants don’t feel pain!! If you chase a cauliflower will it run away ?
Soya milk, tastes better than the milk that causes problems, and diseases.
Most athletes now turning to a plant based diet.
Milk is the cause of a lot of diseases in modern society, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, exzema, I drank a lot of milk when I was young and suffer from exzema.
I will not colour the thread by outlining my own concerns just yet, I would rather people place their own views down first.