Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Thread: Reform of the Courts and the Legal Profession

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Reform of the Courts and the Legal Profession

    Enby started talking about this on Kelly thread, but thought it deserved its own.

    At the Law Society Annual Conference, Shatter decided to have another go at the judges and criticised the court timetable. He questioned whether all of the breaks were really necessary in this day and age.

    As loath as I am to admit it, and as much as I despise him, unfortunately I, for once, find myself in agreement with Shatter. I feel so dirty saying that.

    As a "relatively" young practitioner, I find the amount of breaks in the year excessive. It's a holiday for senior practitioners who have consistent incomes and regular work, but for people starting out and struggling at the beginning its not a holiday but essentially two months of the year where you make no money. I remember dreading the long vacation and trying desperately to save as much money as possible to get me through the two months.

    Inevitably, by sticking around, you get some stuff to keep you going, but it really is an unacceptable practice in a supposedly modern system and a deterrent to younger barristers who may not necessarily be able to afford two months "vacation". Of course, it's also bad for clients. The only people it benefits are the judges and cosy senior practitioners. I know the excuse is that the judges use the time to write judgments, but there's more than a whiff of bullsh*t about that excuse. Sure, some of them write judgments, but not all. Secondly, if shorter holidays means more streamlined and concise judgments rather then the 100 page + ridiculousness that is sometimes produced now, then that's a good thing.

    We all know the school holidays and the court holidays are left overs of a time when people needed to head home to assist with planting and then the harvest. Those times are long gone. There is no excuse for the continuation of either. I also found it extremely amusing that Shatter would criticise the judges when the Dail is the only body that has longer holidays! No excuse for those breaks either but you won't hear a peep from politicians about that.

    I see no reason why the courts can't start back properly in September. August would be unworkable due to the large number of experts who take holidays during that period.

    I also see no reason for the number and length of the other "vacation" periods throughout the year. I want to work. I want to earn money. I can't do that if the courts aren't sitting and cases aren't being heard. The "holidays" only suit senior practitioners with established practices and in my opinion are a significant barrier to entry and further obstacle (amongst too many already) to people trying to build a practice.

    While we're at it, I think the courts should start earlier, at maybe 9.30 or 10. You need a bit of time to talk before cases start, but an 11 o'clock start is not justifiable. I'm not sure you could extend the finish time beyond 4 o'clock. The registrars have to write up Orders after court, and if the court sits longer than 4, they wouldn't have time to finish up the Orders and organise lists etc for the following day. Unless they had secretarial support staff which would simply increase overall running costs.

    So, even though the President of the High Court has indicated that some cases will be heard in September, I don't think it goes anywhere near far enough. I .... agree ..... ugh .... with Shatter. Jesus, that was hard.

    He also suggested reforming judicial appointments, which again is badly needed. Although bizarrely he suggested that academics should be appointed judges. Talk about a disaster waiting to happen. At least in America, where legal and professional education are combined, and where a lot of the academics are actually practising lawyers, there is some basis for it. In England, some of the more senior academics are barristers attached to chambers and appear in cases as consultants so there is a justification there as well. However, in this jurisdiction, most of them barely have a professional qualification, let alone have ever practised. They're not exactly up there with the likes of Baroness Hale or Posner. The only one who would even approach it was Hogan, who was a Senior Counsel and he has been made a judge. I can't think of anyone else who'd be up to it to be honest, apart from Binchy, who is back practising now and who I think would be too old for appointment.

    On a final note, there is another article in today's Irish Times reporting on another aspect of Shatter's speech at the weekend. He apparently said that his revenge bill, "reforming" the profession, has been amended to take into account the "concerns" (read almost universal condemnation) raised by people in relation to his grab for power. He said the Bill will now be referred to Committee stage, almost two years later.

    I'll be interested to see what changes he's made to his little glory project. Will family law taxations still be secret? Will he still be able to appoint himself Senior Counsel? Will he still try and abolish the bar (as he suggested quite strongly in a recent address to Law Society graduates I think)? Will he still try and establish three new quangos, which he never costed and which have been demonstrated to cost more than the current model, and which will have to be paid for by the professions (read the clients through increased fees)? And all these quangos will have permanent jobs for life, with public service style pensions, all of which again will be funded by us through increased fees. Truly inspired reforms Shatter. Really.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    It was odd that Kearns' concession of the High Court sitting in September was not mentioned by RTE when the covered the Minister's speech.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    10,004
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Ger Killally and Ivor Callelly are lookin' for a wee bit of legal advice at the minute, if that's any good to you.
    Heaven and Earth Meet in the Human Heart!

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member Franzoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dublin Wood Quay ...now Northside
    Posts
    15,286
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    As a "relatively" young practitioner, I find the amount of breaks in the year excessive. It's a holiday for senior practitioners who have consistent incomes and regular work, but for people starting out and struggling at the beginning its not a holiday but essentially two months of the year where you make no money. I remember dreading the long vacation and trying desperately to save as much money as possible to get me through the two months.
    Don't worry Kbar...you will have some of the usual establishment hacks along in a while to tell you your a whinger and to get a part time job packing shelves in the local supermarket for the two months....
    What the imagination can't conjure, reality delivers with a shrug

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Radix View Post
    Ger Killally and Ivor Callelly are lookin' for a wee bit of legal advice at the minute, if that's any good to you.
    I'm not sure I get your point? Unless it was a some sort of dig about me needing work? Rest assured, I'm doing ok thanks, but I appreciate the concern. Thanks for contributing.

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member Captain Willard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    matrix of surds
    Posts
    400
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Hello kbar2011,


    At the moment I am busy with another matter. However, I would be delighted if you would consent to an honest exchange of opinions on how to improve upon the current oversight mechanisms for your profession. By that I mean the Solicitors Acts, since you opened this thread by mentioning the LSI Annual Conference.

    Perhaps, tomorrow I can start with an overview of Doorley and Ors? Shall I supply link to judgment for starts? 2011 86/SA

    Yea or Nay?
    Knowledge is not heaps of new ideas but the use of a comparison between new and established relationships: Eunomus

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    184
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I agree with kbar.

    But we still need an expanded Supreme Court, an Appeals Court and lots of other reforms.

    And a way of making sure that shatter can never practise as a sc or be made a judge.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member Nemesiscorporation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Planet earth
    Posts
    14,081
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    The whole legal system in Ireland needs reformed from top to bottom.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Sister Mercedes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    20,663
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evestown2 View Post
    And a way of making sure that shatter can never practise as a sc or be made a judge.
    I'll concede you that, if none of the spouses, children, siblings, cousins, nephews, nieces or neighbors of current Judges are allowed to serve as Judge either.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member artfoley56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    courtown, Dun Laoghaire
    Posts
    9,272
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Willard View Post
    Hello kbar2011,


    At the moment I am busy with another matter. However, I would be delighted if you would consent to an honest exchange of opinions on how to improve upon the current oversight mechanisms for your profession. By that I mean the Solicitors Acts, since you opened this thread by mentioning the LSI Annual Conference.

    Perhaps, tomorrow I can start with an overview of Doorley and Ors? Shall I supply link to judgment for starts? 2011 86/SA

    Yea or Nay?
    You do know kbar is a bl?
    "I like a bit of a cavort, I don't send 'em solicitor's letters. I apply a bit of pressure"

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •