Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Interesting analysis of US college student loans programme has lessons for Ireland

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    13,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Interesting analysis of US college student loans programme has lessons for Ireland

    See 4 Reasons Why Bill Bennett and http://finance.yahoo.com/news/studen...100500789.html

    The US government guarantee of bank student loans gave a massive boost to private colleges charging high fees,many of them marketing their degrees to people with low levels of education. As a result,college dropout rates are high,with high student loan default rates.An important question is whether college dropouts gained some value from their limited educational experience,possibly in enhanced social skills that would make them more employable.

    US high school exam results provide a good prediction of college graduation prospects, suggesting that student loans should be restricted to students who have a good chance of graduating.If students think that's unfair,they should resit their high school exams or the equivalent.

    The standardised national Irish Leaving Cert results should be an even better prediction of college graduation prospects than the US high school diplomas which vary in quality between schools,never mind US states. This should enable the government to devise a student loan programme that doesn't need much of a subsidy,probably a small scale programme to begin with. In coming years,many families will need the assistance of student loans as it is likely that student registration fees will double or treble in the next five to seven years to finance the funding requirements of Ireland's chronically underfunded third level universities.
    Last edited by patslatt; 11th May 2013 at 04:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cobh, Cork
    Posts
    498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    All student loans have done in the USA is pushed in the price of degrees so much that the extra opportunity's afforded from them is becoming nil.

    Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

    Why would you think that the leaving cert which is only a memory test excluding maths is any better than the sats in the USA at predicting graduation prospects.

    Look back to when you where in 6th class and think where all your classmates ended up.
    Last edited by cobhguy; 11th May 2013 at 05:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    13,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cobhguy View Post
    All student loans have done in the USA is pushed in the price of degrees so much that the extra opportunity's afforded from them is becoming nil.

    Cost Of College Degree In U.S. Has Increased 1,120 Percent In 30 Years, Report Says

    Why would you think that the leaving cert which is only a memory test excluding maths is any better than the sats in the USA at predicting graduation prospects.

    Look back to when you where in 6th class and think where all your classmates ended up.
    I've seen research that claims high school results are a better predictor than SATS of college graduation,especially high school maths. However,SATS questions are becoming more creative,which may improve prediction.

    Excessive fees won't be a problem in Ireland as the government has a veto over fees of state financed colleges and is committed to providing access to qualified students.

    I looked at past Leaving Cert honours papers in English and history,subjects that require a high level of creativity.The papers were quite demanding,with questions designed to prevent reliance on rote learning.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member ManOfReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,321
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    The US College tuition system is the next bubble to bust, and not before time. The rule of thumb is that you should not borrow more than you expect to earn in your first year of work. I have also people suggest the rule: one third borrowed, one third provided by family and one third eared by student while they are in college.

    There are two real rip offs in the US system, the first level are the high end liberal colleges that charge Harvard/Yale type prices to the children of rich people who would like their kids to hang out on a nice campus for four years while 'earning' an undemanding feel good 'education'

    On the other end of the scale are the sudo-colleges whose only reason for existence is to find poor kids or military veterans who have automatic access to tuition assistance and hover up all that financial aid. There are the kind of Colleges that advertise on radio and the like.

    The rest of the system, State Universities or Quality Private Colleges, provide a good education that can be expensive but affordable if combined with scholarships and grants.

    The Irish system is very different and a loan system (limited to 5K per year say for tuition) targeted at the current colleges in the CAO system that keep the fees below 5K pa. This could help finance education and give the 3rd level colleges the funding they desperately need to be competitive.
    Clicking an ad a day keeps Politics.ie in business.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern Ireland - without forgiveness, there is dysfunctionality.
    Posts
    46,117
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    In a country like Ireland, where nepotism and cronyism are rife, the most important feature of any examination system, should be objective nuetrality.

    I have heard of a former Education minister, whose neice sent a paper back a second time to be reassessed and who jumped the grade massively. It is not perfect.

    But I am concerned that this might be changed for the worse, under the current proposals. Especially with respect to fee paying schools, who are in the business of getting a result.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    13,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfReason View Post
    The US College tuition system is the next bubble to bust, and not before time. The rule of thumb is that you should not borrow more than you expect to earn in your first year of work. I have also people suggest the rule: one third borrowed, one third provided by family and one third eared by student while they are in college.

    There are two real rip offs in the US system, the first level are the high end liberal colleges that charge Harvard/Yale type prices to the children of rich people who would like their kids to hang out on a nice campus for four years while 'earning' an undemanding feel good 'education'

    On the other end of the scale are the sudo-colleges whose only reason for existence is to find poor kids or military veterans who have automatic access to tuition assistance and hover up all that financial aid. There are the kind of Colleges that advertise on radio and the like.

    The rest of the system, State Universities or Quality Private Colleges, provide a good education that can be expensive but affordable if combined with scholarships and grants.

    The Irish system is very different and a loan system (limited to 5K per year say for tuition) targeted at the current colleges in the CAO system that keep the fees below 5K pa. This could help finance education and give the 3rd level colleges the funding they desperately need to be competitive.
    HARVARD'S SELF PERPETUATING MERITOCRATIC ELITE

    Most students in Harvard are largely funded by Harvard grants in the university strategy to use its huge trust fund to attract the best and the brightest. The graduates tend to be highly successful because of the initial highly selective system. When they get rich,they contribute generously,keeping the self perpetuating meritocratic elite system going.
    Last edited by patslatt; 14th May 2013 at 12:47 AM.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In the Bunker...Returning Fire!
    Posts
    29,323
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    I looked at past Leaving Cert honours papers in English and history,subjects that require a high level of creativity.The papers were quite demanding,with questions designed to prevent reliance on rote learning.
    I got Higher level A's in both of them and it can most definitly be achieved by creative rote learning. You do not learn essays, you learn facts. Sequence them and be good a creating filler.
    That is the success to exams in Ireland.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member making waves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    18,580
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    patslatt is on one of his privatisation binges - best to hit 'ignore'
    Separate Church and State

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    13,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    I got Higher level A's in both of them and it can most definitly be achieved by creative rote learning. You do not learn essays, you learn facts. Sequence them and be good a creating filler.
    That is the success to exams in Ireland.
    Please demonstrate your technique with a Leaving Cert English question that to the layman seems to require a creative answer. Your creativity probably accounted for most of your marks,not oxymoronic creative rote learning.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member ruserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In the Bunker...Returning Fire!
    Posts
    29,323
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Please demonstrate your technique with a Leaving Cert English question that to the layman seems to require a creative answer. Your creativity probably accounted for most of your marks,not oxymoronic creative rote learning.
    With English, you need to learn the way you answer the question to garner most marks. If you have a clear defined path to answering with some quotes and a bit of analysis backed up you will go a long way to getting top marks. You don't actually need to learn much.
    Boycott the "Irish" Sun rag.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •