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Thread: Who Are More Conservative The Irish Electorate Or Their Politicians?

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Default Who Are More Conservative The Irish Electorate Or Their Politicians?

    Even bearing in mind, you generally get the politicians you deserve! I think the people are ahead of the politicians today(ie more liberal) and the ultimate example of this is the new limited abortion bill, there is a more humane and liberal attitude towards women in difficulties due to a hard pregnancy than is reflected in many politicians attitudes!!
    The point has been made that most of the major engagements our politicians have with the plebs is outside churches and at funerals and meeting a few chancers looking for something for nothing at their clinics, all of whom would tend to be more conservative then the plebs, they don't ever meet!

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    On moral issues it's the politicians.
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    Every 20 years or thereabouts, ever since the 1930s, the politicians by amazing coincidence manage to drive all the least conservative people out of the country, leaving them with the elderly, the lazy and the stupid, thus allowing them to continue snouting at the trough and being a shower of medieval bead-rattling morons.

    Such is Ireland, and don't actually expect it to ever change - except at a glacial pace, and at least 40 years behind the advanced nations.

    Take a look at this forum - the members of whom, it being an internet forum, might be expected to be slightly younger, more tech-savvy and more literate than the average four-thumbed web-footed yokel from the depths of Roscommon. And what do we find? The average poster on p.ie wishes it was still the 1970s. Most of those that don't, wish it was the 1950s instead. Some would clearly prefer the 1880s given the amount of whining they do for their lost Imperial Mutha, and not a few would feel much more comfortable in the 14th century - safely pre-Guttenberg.

    There's only a tiny handful of people here who have managed to reach the dizzying futuristic heights of the 1990s, never mind the 21st century.....and pretty much every single one of them lives abroad.

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    Every 20 years or thereabouts, ever since the 1930s, the politicians by amazing coincidence manage to drive all the least conservative people out of the country, leaving them with the elderly, the lazy and the stupid, thus allowing them to continue snouting at the trough and being a shower of medieval bead-rattling morons.

    Such is Ireland, and don't actually expect it to ever change - except at a glacial pace, and at least 40 years behind the advanced nations.

    Take a look at this forum - the members of whom, it being an internet forum, might be expected to be slightly younger, more tech-savvy and more literate than the average four-thumbed web-footed yokel from the depths of Roscommon. And what do we find? The average poster on p.ie wishes it was still the 1970s. Most of those that don't, wish it was the 1950s instead. Some would clearly prefer the 1880s given the amount of whining they do for their lost Imperial Mutha, and not a few would feel much more comfortable in the 14th century - safely pre-Guttenberg.

    There's only a tiny handful of people here who have managed to reach the dizzying futuristic heights of the 1990s, never mind the 21st century.....and pretty much every single one of them lives abroad.
    Politicians creating circumstances to force people to run out of the country may well be a deliberate ploy to cull the most energetic and least conservative from the population and keep the status quo and the traditional 2.5 party system we have had traditionally!

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    As long as old people dominate Leinster House this will not change.
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    Politics.ie Member stopdoingstuff's Avatar
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    Most issues of any significance get decided by referendum so that is a fair indication that the people are relatively conservative compared to other countries. That being said Irish politicians are conservative but in a far worse way than mere social conservatism- they lack vision, imagination, initiative and drive. That is far worse than mere run-of-the-mill conservatism. As for Irish young people being liberal, they are in their shyte. At least not in my experience. I was in UCD in the 90s and the political and social culture was an almost exact replication of the society as a whole.

    I went back in the next decade after a few years abroad to get a higher qualification and it was even worse- utter apathy, fethishized consumption, and the intellectual curiosity of Jessica Simpson at a professional wrestling convention. It was even worse where I was doing my post-grad - Smurfit. The vast bulk of my class- allegedly original thinkers who would lead the next generation of Irish businesses- went straight into banks or some other form of corporate bureaucracy. So i wouldn't bank on a massive outbreak of endeavour or originality any time soon.
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    Politics.ie Member LamportsEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Urko View Post
    Even bearing in mind, you generally get the politicians you deserve! I think the people are ahead of the politicians today(ie more liberal) and the ultimate example of this is the new limited abortion bill, there is a more humane and liberal attitude towards women in difficulties due to a hard pregnancy than is reflected in many politicians attitudes!!
    The point has been made that most of the major engagements our politicians have with the plebs is outside churches and at funerals and meeting a few chancers looking for something for nothing at their clinics, all of whom would tend to be more conservative then the plebs, they don't ever meet!
    I think you have a point. On social issues it is always the people who have to drag the Dail behind it. Bearing in mind that there is a lot of dynasty politics and the budding 'lenihan' take the reins of a local party system which doesn't change very much, attends the same sort of private school his father did and is inculcated with the notion of preservation which is inherently conservative in what is a small rural conservative nation off the coast of Europe.

    I often think if it wasn't for people who leave Ireland and return demanding an updating or change when they encounter some bog-silliness that was in place and irritated them when they were young then hardly anything would change.

    I cannot think of any area where Irish politicians have led reform. I've seen plenty where they had to be dragged kicking, screaming, obfuscating, objecting, scuppering, delaying in favour of a system they want trapped in aspic for their own children to inherit.

    Ireland is a nation with one million men and one million women roughly. It is a perfect size and demographic to be bold and to consider the unique solution.

    I've never heard of a proposal in the Dail that wasn't simply copied harmlessly from either Westminster or at best Washington. The nothing original, the nothing new.

    'Let no new thing arise' is the morning chant of the Irish politician. Mostly because they wouldn't have the equipment to deal with it. Even now the vast majority of members of the Dail have no idea what happened in the financial crash of 2007 and we saw how quickly the Minister of Finance, despite having an ostensibly well-informed and definitely well-paid ministry of officials behind him had to start buying in expertise from the very institutions who benefit from that very chaos.
    Whenever understanding exists, accepting or rejecting is unnecessary. (Fundamentals of a Gnostic Education).

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    Politics.ie Member Goa Tse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    I went back in the next decade after a few years abroad to get a higher qualification and it was even worse- utter apathy, fethishized consumption, and the intellectual curiosity of Jessica Simpson at a professional wrestling convention. It was even worse where I was doing my post-grad - Smurfit. The vast bulk of my class- allegedly original thinkers who would lead the next generation of Irish businesses- went straight into banks or some other form of corporate bureaucracy. So i wouldn't bank on a massive outbreak of endeavour or originality any time soon.
    I'm sorry, but comparing the intellect of UCD business graduates to Jessica Simpson and professional wrestling is highly insulting; both to Jessica Simpson and professional wrestling.
    'I am not gay, although I wish I were, just to piss off homophobes.' - Kurt Cobain

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    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
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    well...just look at how they both address the issue of marajauna liberalisation...

    I mean, will there be moves by local authorities, especially those that love to project their liberalism like DL or Fingal, to demand that they are allowed to have zones for public consumption ?

    Where does Ivana stand in relation to pot ? Or AOR ?

    When all the posturing, and showing off is done, is she or A-dawn, really that liberal ?
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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    Politics.ie Member General Urko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    well...just look at how they both address the issue of marajauna liberalisation...

    I mean, will there be moves by local authorities, especially those that love to project their liberalism like DL or Fingal, to demand that they are allowed to have zones for public consumption ?

    Where does Ivana stand in relation to pot ? Or AOR ?



    When all the posturing, and showing off is done, is she or A-dawn, really that liberal ?
    Re Ivana Batty Chick, whoose career in politics will hopefully be finished with Seanad abolition, she's a Mad Hattie Harmon wannabee and given her support for the insane Swedish model of client criminalisation in prostitution which will drive it further underground and put the lives of vulnerable women at greater risk, she is no liberal. In fac, she has more in common with the nutters behind Ruhama who were the same type who ran the Magdellan concentration camps!

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