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Thread: Homeless Czech national living in toilet dies

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    Default Homeless Czech national living in toilet dies

    I remember hearing about this story a few weeks ago and thought it rather sad. Back during the bitterly cold month that was March, this guy was living in a public toilet in Ennis. He didn't want to return home but because his residency had lapsed, he wasn't in receipt of any state assistance. This meant he couldn't stay in local accommodation for homeless people.

    Surely there should be some final safety net for people like him?

    Homeless man living in Clare public toilet dies - RTÉ News

    Homeless man, 58, lives in town

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    Politics.ie Member NewGoldDream's Avatar
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    Desperately sad stuff.

    There will always be alcoholism, there will always be homelessness. But you just have to think, when this man was young and optimistic, did he think life would wind up with him homeless and drunk in an Irish toilet.

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    what a caring nation we are - thousands of empty homes and still people living outside - wtf is the joined up thinking ?

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    Politics.ie Member sic transit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guano jim View Post
    what a caring nation we are - thousands of empty homes and still people living outside - wtf is the joined up thinking ?
    It is sad but he was a chronic alcoholic. They don't care about anything except the drink and being found dead is a daily risk to them.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewGoldDream View Post
    But you just have to think, when this man was young and optimistic, did he think life would wind up with him homeless and drunk in an Irish toilet.
    Life is about the journey, not the destination. If most of us now knew the time and location of our final breath, we'd probably hit the bottle big time.
    Good luck to the homeless guy. He probably had some good times along the way. And now his day is done. What more is there to say?

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    Politics.ie Member Libero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sic transit View Post
    It is sad but he was a chronic alcoholic. They don't care about anything except the drink and being found dead is a daily risk to them.
    There are three statements in your post.
    1. The victim was a chronic alcoholic.
    2. Alcoholics don't care about anything except the drink.
    3. Alcoholics are at a 'daily risk' of being found dead.

    Looking back at that, I'm not sure of the point in your post.
    1. seems to be your way of acknowledging and yet diminishing the sadness of the story ("it is sad but...")
    2. is clearly untrue. Alcoholics don't lose their minds to the addiction and usually comprehend with great misery the damage they are doing to their bodies and lives and to those around them.
    3. is true of all of us.

    I have to ask: is your post really a way of telling us we should ignore this story because, in a veiled and coded way, the victim is to blame for placing himself at risk and is anyhow not properly human, craving just the drink?

    It seems to me there are other factors that are relevant here, including the state's policy towards those in difficult circumstances but without residency. I hope we don't lose sight of that in a rush to blame the victim. I especially hope people don't blame the victim in a dishonest attempt to pretend those other factors don't exist.

    RIP.

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    Politics.ie Member gijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guano jim View Post
    what a caring nation we are - thousands of empty homes and still people living outside - wtf is the joined up thinking ?
    Anyone in the emergency services will tell you that there are just a proportion of people, principally with drink/drug addictions combined with mental health issues, that no matter what you do for them bar locking them up with a strait jacket are just on an inevitable trajectory to an early grave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libero View Post
    There are three statements in your post.
    1. The victim was a chronic alcoholic.
    2. Alcoholics don't care about anything except the drink.
    3. Alcoholics are at a 'daily risk' of being found dead.

    Looking back at that, I'm not sure of the point in your post.
    1. seems to be your way of acknowledging and yet diminishing the sadness of the story ("it is sad but...")
    2. is clearly untrue. Alcoholics don't lose their minds to the addiction and usually comprehend with great misery the damage they are doing to their bodies and lives and to those around them.
    3. is true of all of us.

    I have to ask: is your post really a way of telling us we should ignore this story because, in a veiled and coded way, the victim is to blame for placing himself at risk and is anyhow not properly human, craving just the drink?

    It seems to me there are other factors that are relevant here, including the state's policy towards those in difficult circumstances but without residency. I hope we don't lose sight of that in a rush to blame the victim. I especially hope people don't blame the victim in a dishonest attempt to pretend those other factors don't exist.

    RIP.
    Well I do blame the victim. We are responsible for our own life choices. These bits are from the article in the Independent.

    "People were more aware of Josef's plight and were much more friendly towards him, giving him money, but that only increased massively his resources for drinking and that was not good for him," the inspector added.

    Insp Kennedy said that "Josef had given his family the impression that he was getting on well in Ireland". He confirmed a post-mortem was due to be carried out to determine the exact cause of death.
    Gardai are liaising with authorities in the Czech Republic to repatriate Mr Pavelka's body.
    So to review, he came to Ireland to work construction 6 years ago. The industry collapsed, a shame but he had the option to return home where he had a family and a support network. Thousands of Irish in the same industry have been forced to leave these shores. He turned to alcohol which eventually killed him.

    He had choices. He was responsible for his own decisions.
    ‘The Great only appear great because we are on our knees: Let Us Rise!’ “ (James Larkin)

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    Politics.ie Member sic transit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libero View Post
    There are three statements in your post.
    1. The victim was a chronic alcoholic.
    2. Alcoholics don't care about anything except the drink.
    3. Alcoholics are at a 'daily risk' of being found dead.

    Looking back at that, I'm not sure of the point in your post.
    1. seems to be your way of acknowledging and yet diminishing the sadness of the story ("it is sad but...")
    2. is clearly untrue. Alcoholics don't lose their minds to the addiction and usually comprehend with great misery the damage they are doing to their bodies and lives and to those around them.
    3. is true of all of us.

    I have to ask: is your post really a way of telling us we should ignore this story because, in a veiled and coded way, the victim is to blame for placing himself at risk and is anyhow not properly human, craving just the drink?

    It seems to me there are other factors that are relevant here, including the state's policy towards those in difficult circumstances but without residency. I hope we don't lose sight of that in a rush to blame the victim. I especially hope people don't blame the victim in a dishonest attempt to pretend those other factors don't exist.

    RIP.
    It was a path he found himself on and I don't blame him for anything except not seeking help. Alcoholics are addicts and like all other addicts actually do not care about anything expect themselves. We can have every sympathy with them but ultimately no matter how hard people try they will find a way a way to their drug at the expense of relationships, food, heat and pretty much everything else and that hastens their demise.
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Ernest Hemingway

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    Politics.ie Member Libero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
    Anyone in the emergency services will tell you that there are just a proportion of people, principally with drink/drug addictions combined with mental health issues, that no matter what you do for them bar locking them up with a strait jacket are just on an inevitable trajectory to an early grave.
    My cousin is in the emergency services; she doesn't tell me that.

    Nevermind. What's the proportion you're talking about? Is it a fixed percentage, or does it vary from time to time?

    What do you propose we do with this knowledge of a proportion? Can we actually use it to identify the hopeless cases, leaving them to die in the streets while we intelligently save those capable of salvation?

    Or is it really the truth that there is no definite proportion, and that we can't always tell the hopeless cases from the cases that might have hope, but are tempted to pretend otherwise to justify doing nothing?

    (As an aside, I usually take the side of state versus church but in the case of foreign nationals needing assistance but lacking residency, it is the Irish church that strains most to help and that should be recognised.)

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