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Thread: Did Fianna Fáil help create the Provisional IRA?

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    Politics.ie Member Honecker's Avatar
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    Default Did Fianna Fáil help create the Provisional IRA?

    Following the failure of the border campaign 1956-62, the IRA leadership began to foresee the necessity of moving away from a narrow militarist strategy and pay attention to material concerns of people such as housing, unemployment and public services. Examples from places like Cuba and Vietnam showed that successful national liberation movements could be built from combining socialists and anti-imperialists. Increasingly the IRA became involved in the Dublin Housing Action Committees and industrial disputes. This helped win new Republican supporters among young left radicals and working class people. But not everyone was happy. Fianna Fáil was disturbed that the Republican movement was now criticising their economic policies and getting involved in campaigns against their landlord friends and business pals. Some of the more traditional republicans were also concerned that the IRA were neglecting the armed struggle in favour of street politics. Some conspiracy theorists in the Republican movements even believed leading IRA figures like Cathal Goulding were being brainwashed by communists. Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the IRA was being taken over by communists. Although before the 1969 general election Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the Labour Party was run by Chairman Mao.

    The events of 1969 saw Fianna Fáil gombeen men and conservative republicans join together. The conservative republicans who would form the Provisional IRA essentially just wanted a 32 county version of catholic Ireland rather than a revolution. Fianna Fáil offered money and arms to right wing republicans on the basis they abandoned socialist politics and overthrew the leadership. Money was put in IRA accounts in banks in border towns that only right wing republicans had access too.

    Looking at the demographics of the split, it seems to confirm the theory that Fianna Fáil spawned the provos. Younger, better educated and more progressive Republicans stuck with the Officials. Older, conservative, more religious and rural republicans were more likely to support the provisionals. Fianna Fáil was delighted with the provos because they returned the focus of struggle to the 6 counties and they stopped trying to change the gombeen Free State. Given the type of people who formed the provos it was inevitable they would become involved in sectarian murder and mindless killings. The likes of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Sean Mac Stiofain backed up by gombeen Fianna Fáil would create a monster. The provos were FF's Frankenstein's Monster.
    Last edited by Honecker; 26th April 2013 at 08:03 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member harshreality's Avatar
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    Not necessarily, perhaps they thought all those guns were for pheasant shooting

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    Politics.ie Member Heligoland's Avatar
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    I didn't realise you wrote fiction. Very good.

    I'm not sure why the title is in the form of a question though, since you have clearly made up your mind what the answer is.

    Still, cracking read.

    You should try it as non-fiction, but then of course you'd have to provide some references to back up this stuff, and that might be hard.

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honecker View Post
    Following the failure of the border campaign 1956-62, the IRA leadership began to foresee the necessity of moving away from a narrow militarist strategy and pay attention to material concerns of people such as housing, unemployment and public services. Examples from places like Cuba and Vietnam showed that successful national liberation movements could be built from combining socialists and anti-imperialists. Increasingly the IRA became involved in the Dublin Housing Action Committees and industrial disputes. This helped win new Republican supporters among young left radicals and working class people. But not everyone was happy. Fianna Fáil was disturbed that the Republican movement was now criticising their economic policies and getting involved in campaigns against their landlord friends and business pals. Some of the more traditional republicans were also concerned that the IRA were neglecting the armed struggle in favour of street politics. Some conspiracy theorists in the Republican movements even believed leading IRA figures like Cathal Goulding were being brainwashed by communists. Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the IRA was being taken over by communists. Although before the 1969 general election Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the Labour Party was run by Chairman Mao.

    The events of 1969 saw Fianna Fáil gombeen men and conservative republicans join together. The conservative republicans who would form the Provisional IRA essentially just wanted a 32 county version of catholic Ireland rather than a revolution. Fianna Fáil offered money and arms to right wing republicans on the basis they abandoned socialist politics and overthrew the leadership. Money was put in IRA accounts in banks in border towns that only right wing republicans had access too.

    Looking at the demographics of the split, it seems to confirm the theory that Fianna Fáil spawned the provos. Younger, better educated and more progressive Republicans stuck with the Officials. Older, conservative, more religious and rural republicans were more likely to support the provisionals. Fianna Fáil was delighted with the provos because they returned the focus of struggle to the 6 counties and stopped trying to change the gombeen Free State. Given the type of people who formed the provos it was inevitable they would become involved in sectarian murder and mindless killings. The likes of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Sean Mac Stiofain backed up by gombeen Fianna Fáil would create a monster. The provos were FF's Frankenstein's Monster.
    They played a hand but the Provos would have been born anyway even without this charming set of midwives...
    If you can convince a People to engage in the mass elimination of their own offspring - you can probably get them to do anything...http://irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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    Politics.ie Member Honecker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heligoland View Post
    I didn't realise you wrote fiction. Very good.

    I'm not sure why the title is in the form of a question though, since you have clearly made up your mind what the answer is.

    Still, cracking read.

    You should try it as non-fiction, but then of course you'd have to provide some references to back up this stuff, and that might be hard.
    So you dispute that Fianna Fáil were providing the provos were money and guns? Did you ever hear of the arms trial? Haughey and his pals were involved in many fundraising efforts for the provos.

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    Politics.ie Member Danny10's Avatar
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    The likes of O Bradaign and MacStiofain wanted to overthrow both of the states in Ireland. Most of the original Provisional leadership were children of Civil War generation, they were bitterly opposed to the southern state.

    The guns that were provided by elements of the Fianna Fáil Government (via Captain James Kelly) were all supplied prior to the Provisional/Official split and many of them were personally picked up by none other than Cathal Goulding from Dublin's docks. (as is noted in 'The Lost Revolution' by Brian Hanely & Scott Millar).

    Your analysis is an interesting story, but nothing to do with historical fact.

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    Politics.ie Member Heligoland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honecker View Post
    So you dispute that Fianna Fáil were providing the provos were money and guns? Did you ever hear of the arms trial? Haughey and his pals were involved in many fundraising efforts for the provos.
    So where is your proof? Let's start with these bank accounts. Got anything to back that up?

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    Politics.ie Member Honecker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heligoland View Post
    So where is your proof? Let's start with these bank accounts. Got anything to back that up?
    I thought it was common knowledge at this stage. It is mentioned in many books including "The Longest War" by Kevin Kelley.

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    Politics.ie Member Nedz Newt's Avatar
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    Did FF create the Provisional IRA?

    Weren't you listening to Enda Kenny today - OF COURSE FF created the Provisional IRA, they caused the famine, the great flood, the plague of locusts, the slaughter of every first born child and the flight to Egypt too.

    Baaaastards!

    Thankfully, we have Enda to sort it all out, and if it takes him a while, clearly that;s FF's fault too.
    genua, et asinus praesepe Osculer, oro

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    Politics.ie Member Heligoland's Avatar
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    All sorts of incredible things are mentioned in books about the IRA.

    What is the proof though? Are there references in your book to identify these bank accounts? Who were the people who had control of them and how do you know who they were allied with?

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