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Thread: The Ukranian Holodomor 1932-3

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    Default The Ukranian Holodomor 1932-3

    It is now generally recognised that the Ukranian famine of 1932/3 was an artificial famine created as part of Stalin's war on the Russian peasantry and Ukraine in general. Estimates of deaths range up to 7 million although Synder in 'Bloodlands' beleives that 3.5 million died.

    The famine was initiated when the Bolsheviks attempted to force peasants into collective farms and to requisition food. That didn't work so Stalin, directly through Kaganovich who was put in charge, tricked them by allowing a return to private farming but then sending in the NKVD and party to seize all the food they could get their hands on. They were billeted with the peasants and apart from stealing their food were also prone to gang-rape.

    Cannibalism was also common. There are descriptions of families eating their children and in an orphanage, of children slicing flesh off a little girl who herself was eating some of it. Perhaps we are just as well not knowing all the details of what happened in our Holodomor.

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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
    It is now generally recognised that the Ukranian famine of 1932/3 was an artificial famine created as part of Stalin's war on the Russian peasantry and Ukraine in general. Estimates of deaths range up to 7 million although Synder in 'Bloodlands' beleives that 3.5 million died.

    The famine was initiated when the Bolsheviks attempted to force peasants into collective farms and to requisition food. That didn't work so Stalin, directly through Kaganovich who was put in charge, tricked them by allowing a return to private farming but then sending in the NKVD and party to seize all the food they could get their hands on. They were billeted with the peasants and apart from stealing their food were also prone to gang-rape.

    Cannibalism was also common. There are descriptions of families eating their children and in an orphanage, of children slicing flesh off a little girl who herself was eating some of it. Perhaps we are just as well not knowing all the details of what happened in our Holodomor.
    The Holodomor is an inconvenient truth for the left so it is airbrushed from history in the West.

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    It is not recognised as a deliberate famine. It’s a bit like ours – the Brits didn’t do it on purpose but they did very little to relieve it.

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    Grrrrrrrrrr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Levellers View Post
    It is not recognised as a deliberate famine. It’s a bit like ours – the Brits didn’t do it on purpose but they did very little to relieve it.

    Lemkin who drafted the UN Convention on genocide described the Ukranian famine as 'a classic case of genoicde'. Similar to our own, food that was in the country was taken out, but a much vaster scale of violence in the Ukraine. And while our famine was initally caused by crop failure - exacerbated by failure to make the existing food available - the Ukranian famine was directly caused by food requisitioning.

    One of the most shameful aspects of it was the claims by western visitors to the Soviet Union that there was no famine. Jim Prendergast of the Communist Party of Ireland was in Moscow at the time and wrote an article claiming that he had visited the Ukraine and not seen any starvation. George Bernard Shaw was in the USSR in 1934 and also claimed that there had been no famine.
    Last edited by Seanie Lemass; 23rd April 2013 at 12:07 PM.

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    I'm sure Eamon Gilmore and the other Workers Party crowd would have been apologists for aspects of Stalins rule in the 80's.

    They would have disapproved of the mass killing but they liked the economic ideology of communism so they would have been making excuses for Stalin.

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    Politics.ie Member TheWexfordInn's Avatar
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    Ukraine had a rough time back then. Up to one fifth of its population was killed in the Holodomor and shortly after something like one sixth of its population was killed in the war.

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    Now there is an event in History that never gets much attention from the average revisionsist Marxist living off the working people in a lazy History department of a taxpayer propped up Western university.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
    Lemkin who drafted the UN Convention on genocide described the Ukranian famine as 'a classic case of genoicde'. Similar to our own, food that was in the country was taken out, but a much vaster scale of violence in the Ukraine. And while our famine was initally caused by crop failure - exacerbated by failure to make the existing food available - the Ukranian famine was directly caused by food requisitioning.

    One of the most shameful aspects of it was the claims by western visitors to the Soviet Union that there was no famine. Jim Prendergast of the Communist Party of Ireland was in Moscow at the time and wrote an article claiming that he had visited the Ukraine and not seen any starvation. George Bernard Shaw was in the USSR in 1934 and also claimed that there had been no famine.

    This visit is of course satirised in Animal Farm
    Wouldn't it be fun
    If they gave the ref a gun?

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    Politics.ie Member parentheses's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be an interesting exercise for a trained historian to compare and contrast the Irish famine and the holodomor?

    From waht I can gather, a much larger percentage of the Irish population died in the great famine than Ukrainians died in their Holodomor

    Tim Pat Coogan, in his book, puts the figure as high as 1.8 million.

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