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Thread: More scaremongering from London over Scottish use of Sterling

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Default More scaremongering from London over Scottish use of Sterling

    The GB Treasury has ratcheted up tensions once more by casting doubts on Scotland's continued use of Sterling post independence. This directly contradicts the view of the Scottish Government's Fiscal Commission Working Group which has concluded an independent Scotland could continue using Sterling without trouble.

    The rhetoric by the Tory government also seems to fly in the face of historical precedence of former colonies continuing to use Pound Sterling after independence. Terrible that the English would resort to such lousy scare tactics.

    UK Chancellor George Osborne believes the SNP "are tying themselves in knots" over plans to retain the pound in the event of a yes to independence.

    He insisted that a currency union could only work as part of a political and economic union.

    Scotland's SNP government wishes to maintain sterling in the event of a yes vote in next September's referendum.

    Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said keeping the pound was the "common sense position supported by the facts".

    However, in a UK government article published on the HM Treasury website, Mr Osborne and his Treasury chief secretary, Danny Alexander, said the Nationalist plan "did not add up".

    They write: "The conclusion is clear. The pound we share now works and it works well. Under independence all the alternatives are second best. So our question to the Nationalists - are you really saying second best is good enough for Scotland?"
    BBC News - Scottish independence: Osborne and Alexander dismiss SNP currency plan

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone's arguing that it can't work. The UK are saying that they won't let it work, and that if Scotland want to go it alone then they go it alone. If they vote to go independent next year (as is their right), the UK don't have to allow them use the pound (as is their right).

    Given the ease at which the referendum's facing defeat right now, I've no earthly idea why they'd let Osborne, the least popular politician on the island be at the face of this.

    You've been tracking this better than most I think, have both sides gotten around to actually calculating what Day 1 of an Independent Scotland looks like? What's the national debt, what are their assets, what amount will they get from the UK kitty, how will they pay social security on Day 8?
    Last edited by Sync; 21st April 2013 at 02:32 AM.
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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    I don't think anyone's arguing that it can't work. The UK are saying that they won't let it work, and that if Scotland want to go it alone then they go it alone. If they vote to go independent next year (as is their right), the UK don't have to allow them use the pound (as is their right).
    The problem with that argument is that countries can, and often do, unilaterally adopt another nation's currency as its own. Montenegro has been using the Euro since its launch, Zimbabwe likewise uses the US Dollar. There would be nothing, in theory, stopping Scotland unilaterally using Pound Sterling.

    Although it would probably not be able to print its own bank notes any more as the Bank of England alone gives approval for Scottish and NI bank notes. They would be obliged to use Bank of England notes and I'm not sure the ordinary Scot on the street would be to chuffed seeing "England" emblazoned across their currency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Given the ease at which the referendum's facing defeat right now, I've no earthly idea why they'd let Osborne, the least popular politician on the island be at the face of this.
    Yeah, someone really should have a word with the Tories to shut up. They'd be better off saying nothing and leaving Labour to run the pro union campaign in Scotland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    I don't think anyone's arguing that it can't work. The UK are saying that they won't let it work, and that if Scotland want to go it alone then they go it alone. If they vote to go independent next year (as is their right), the UK don't have to allow them use the pound (as is their right).

    Given the ease at which the referendum's facing defeat right now, I've no earthly idea why they'd let Osborne, the least popular politician on the island be at the face of this.

    You've been tracking this better than most I think, have both sides gotten around to actually calculating what Day 1 of an Independent Scotland looks like? What's the national debt, what are their assets, what amount will they get from the UK kitty, how will they pay social security on Day 8?
    I've been tracking this since the SNP were re-elected in 2011 and the answer to that question is no, sadly. Also, if you think George Osborne's an odd choice look at Alistair Darling, Johann Lamont, Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie. They're barely articulate imbeciles who propose vacuous arguments largely based around pleasing phrases like "better together, weaker apart", "UK family", "shared history", "coming together". That's their positive case. Their negative case, the far stronger "half" of their campaign, is focussed mostly on personalising the entire pro-independence campaign into Alex Salmond and spreading as much uncertainty and scare-stories as they can.

    I'm a bit irritated though with the scaremongering thing. It's all based around "what-ifs" involving the government of the RUK being really horrible to Scotland and stopping us from using their currency and forcing border controls and all sorts of doomsday scenarios out of sheer badness. If an awkward, archaic, imbalanced political union is all that's keeping us together and stopping the rest of Britain from becoming our arch enemies, why the hell are we in it with the bastards in the first place? It's utter nonsense. Scotland would be England's closest ally. I thought we were all in the "UK family".
    Last edited by Cruineach; 21st April 2013 at 03:03 AM.

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    Moderator NYCKY's Avatar
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    It's a post independence topic but if Scotland wished to join the EU as an independent state, they would have to adopt the Euro as currency. Britain, Denmark and Sweden don't as they negotiated opt outs (well technically Sweden has to join eventually) but any other new accession countries have pledge they will adopt it when ready and some already have. Scotland would not have the delays that the old Eastern bloc countries have and would be expected to join soon after potential accession.

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    I'm still waiting for debate to be opened on the adoption of an independent Scottish currency. Thus far nobody's really looked at it seriously, preferring to say things like "well you'd have to be brave to do that in the current economic climate".

    Regardless though - whether I use the pound, the groat, the euro or the North Korean won won't be the factor guiding my hand when I tick a box on the ballot paper.

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    Politics.ie Member Frank Galton's Avatar
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    Because using a currency from another central bank has worked out so well for Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Cyprus ....
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    Moderator NYCKY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruineach View Post
    I'm still waiting for debate to be opened on the adoption of an independent Scottish currency. Thus far nobody's really looked at it seriously, preferring to say things like "well you'd have to be brave to do that in the current economic climate".

    Regardless though - whether I use the pound, the groat, the euro or the North Korean won won't be the factor guiding my hand when I tick a box on the ballot paper.
    Can you tell us what will or have you made up your mind yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCKY View Post
    Can you tell us what will or have you made up your mind yet?
    I'm going to vote yes because it's the only chance I'll get in my life to take part in building a new, truly democratic, peaceful country. Within the structure of the UK that cannot happen. Even if that new country was in Ireland's dire financial position, I would rather live like that than within the UK. I won't do it out of hatred for the English (or the rest of the UK) though, I've actually been considering applying for a British passport as soon as we get independence.

    I also want to rid this country of nuclear weapons placed here by a government we did not elect. I can go on if you want.

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    Politics.ie Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Galton View Post
    Because using a currency from another central bank has worked out so well for Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Cyprus ....
    A poor comparison. Scotland using Pound Sterling is likely to be far less problematic than Greece/Portugal/Ireland adopting the Euro. Your concern is well founded, but Scotland and England are a whole lot more integrated than Greece and Germany.

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