Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 135 123451151101 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 1344

Thread: Croke Park II - What will the govt. do next?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member mickmick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    260
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Croke Park II - What will the govt. do next?

    IMPACT have told their members that the govt. has three options.
    1 Give up on the savings and leave things as they are until the existing Croke Park agreement expires next March;
    2 Seek to clarify, or even amend, the rejected proposals perhaps with the assistance of an external facilitator such as the Labour Relations Commission;
    3 Move to impose the cuts or a worse package without agreement

    In my view the first option is highly unlikely because the govt. needs the savings now. I also think the second is unlikely because I don't think they can amend CPII in such a way to appease enough unions to back the deal.
    The third view is more likely. I don't think they'd have the bottle to impose a worse package, unless they're really looking for a showdown, but they might try to legislate for the main parts of the rejected deal and hope the union anger blows over, perhaps with some concession thrown in to try and placate some unions.

    Are there any other options open to them? A mini-budget to raise tax, cuts to services, amend their timetable with the Troika, etc.

    Please try and keep this discussion on what the govt. might do now and not the rights or wrongs of the PS or the deal

    Mickmick

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Wexford
    Posts
    517
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mickmick View Post
    IMPACT have told their members that the govt. has three options.
    1 Give up on the savings and leave things as they are until the existing Croke Park agreement expires next March;
    2 Seek to clarify, or even amend, the rejected proposals perhaps with the assistance of an external facilitator such as the Labour Relations Commission;
    3 Move to impose the cuts or a worse package without agreement

    In my view the first option is highly unlikely because the govt. needs the savings now. I also think the second is unlikely because I don't think they can amend CPII in such a way to appease enough unions to back the deal.
    The third view is more likely. I don't think they'd have the bottle to impose a worse package, unless they're really looking for a showdown, but they might try to legislate for the main parts of the rejected deal and hope the union anger blows over, perhaps with some concession thrown in to try and placate some unions.

    Are there any other options open to them? A mini-budget to raise tax, cuts to services, amend their timetable with the Troika, etc.

    Please try and keep this discussion on what the govt. might do now and not the rights or wrongs of the PS or the deal

    Mickmick
    what's the legality of imposing cuts ? the original croke park agreement said there would be no further cuts in pay until 2014.. the current govt may feel the previous govt negotiated a bad / insufficient agreement but i presume they're bound by it

    so whatever the rights and wrongs of it, unless there is a legal basis to unilaterally alter the original croke park agreement i would expect the govt is prevented from making pay reducations before 2014

    On the otherhand, maybe the reductions introduced when the current agreement epxires can make future savings to claw back the eur300m the govt it failed to save in 2013

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member mickmick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    260
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dancl2000 View Post
    what's the legality of imposing cuts ? the original croke park agreement said there would be no further cuts in pay until 2014.. the current govt may feel the previous govt negotiated a bad / insufficient agreement but i presume they're bound by it

    so whatever the rights and wrongs of it, unless there is a legal basis to unilaterally alter the original croke park agreement i would expect the govt is prevented from making pay reducations before 2014
    Don't forget that the govt. can change the law. That's how the original PS pay cuts were introduced. They pre-dated Croke Park I

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,421
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mickmick View Post
    Don't forget that the govt. can change the law. That's how the original PS pay cuts were introduced. They pre-dated Croke Park I
    There was also a caveat to the this agreement that if the growth invisaged did not happen and the crisis worsens which it has that cuts could be imposed

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    1,223
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dancl2000 View Post
    what's the legality of imposing cuts ? the original croke park agreement said there would be no further cuts in pay until 2014.. the current govt may feel the previous govt negotiated a bad / insufficient agreement but i presume they're bound by it

    so whatever the rights and wrongs of it, unless there is a legal basis to unilaterally alter the original croke park agreement i would expect the govt is prevented from making pay reducations before 2014

    On the otherhand, maybe the reductions introduced when the current agreement epxires can make future savings to claw back the eur300m the govt it failed to save in 2013
    The thing is though, the Croke Park Agreement is not actually an agreement, per se, more of an understanding. It has no legal or contractual basis. The government can pretty much do what they like with it, e.g.rip it up, as they've shown.

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    The thing is though, the Croke Park Agreement is not actually an agreement, per se, more of an understanding. It has no legal or contractual basis. The government can pretty much do what they like with it, e.g.rip it up, as they've shown.
    When is an agreement not an agreement? What's the point in public sector workers re-negotiating if it's not worth the paper it's written on. They should see the existing agreement out.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    1,223
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shortie View Post
    When is an agreement not an agreement? What's the point in public sector workers re-negotiating if it's not worth the paper it's written on. They should see the existing agreement out.
    Of course we should. It would gain the government some major goodwill if they did too. My point is that the CPA is not legally binding. FWIW, Towards 2016 was breached by the government side too.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Wexford
    Posts
    517
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    The thing is though, the Croke Park Agreement is not actually an agreement, per se, more of an understanding. It has no legal or contractual basis. The government can pretty much do what they like with it, e.g.rip it up, as they've shown.
    that explains a lot

    personally I think teh govt should legislate now for cuts that take effect after the croke park agreement expires. we're talking about less than a year which is not that long a time. The missing eur300m can be clawed back somehow

    to do otherwise will send a signal that public sector labour relations agreement arent worth the paper they're written on and future govts will have a difficult time getting buy-in when there's a need to re-structuring, change working practices, whatever

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    26,072
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iball123 View Post
    There was also a caveat to the this agreement that if the growth invisaged did not happen and the crisis worsens which it has that cuts could be imposed
    Then let them do that nows.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    1) Freeze increments across the board save for those who perform exceptionally well.
    2) Sack incompetent/corrupt/indiscipline/non-punctual employees;
    3) Let go of any employee on long term sick leave especially back pain and stress on grounds of capacity.
    4) Replace quango employees with contractual staff.
    5) Reduce the pay scale for all new employees by 25%.
    6) A new higher tax band for those earning over €100,000 whether public or private.
    7) Hire accountants/lawyers on a commission basis to conduct filtering revenue audits and social welfare fraud investigations.
    8) Aim to ensure that the effective corporation tax is closer to the nominal tax rate.
    9) Implement the rest of the McCarthy making any employee of abolished positions redundant (unless there is a need elsewhere).
    10) Get on with it.

    ie Reform the public sector in a specific way rather than collective punishment of those with existing contracts.

Page 1 of 135 123451151101 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •