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Thread: Political Affiliations of "Ordinary Citizen" members of the Constitutional Convention

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Skyrocket's Avatar
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    Default Political Affiliations of "Ordinary Citizen" members of the Constitutional Convention

    Has the constitutional Convention been stacked with "ordinary citizens", some of whom in reality have political affiliations or could actually be considered politicians themselves having run in local elections?

    The member list of the CC (66 "randomly" selected "ordinary citizens" and 33 politicians) is posted here: https://www.constitution.ie/Documents/ListOfMembers.pdf

    Consider the backgrounds of the following "ordinary citizen" members:

    Lydia Peppard, Meath: A woman of the same name ran for election as a Labour candidate to Trim Town Council. She got 2.65% and was eliminated. ElectionsIreland.org: 2004 Town Council - Trim First Preference Votes

    She is listed as being elected "Equality officer" of the Meath Labour party in a 2002 article. Father and son appointed Labour - Independent.ie

    She and a neighbour also selected were subject of an Irish Independent article in February raising questions about the transparency of the selection process. Concern as couple and set of neighbours are 'randomly selected' for constitutional body - Independent.ie

    Ray Howes, Wicklow: A person of the same name ran for Labour in the Wicklow local elections in 2009. He later joined Sinn Fein. "RECENT LOCAL election candidate for Labour in Wicklow town, Ray Howes, has left the Labour Party to join the ranks of Sinn Féin."
    Howes joins Sinn Fein after leaving Labour - Independent.ie

    Luke Boyle, Kilkenny. A person of the same name is described in a 2005 article as "a former Labour Party councillor on Kilkenny Corporation." Midlands 103 FM Radio - Podcasts Live Radio Podcast Ireland Radio Station Programmes Midlands 103 FM Podcast Audio Playback - Radio Station Ireland

    Richard Codd, Wicklow: A person of the same name is described as "Constituency Chairman" of the "Wicklow Constituency Fine Gael Party" in a January 2013 submission to the local electoral boundary committee. http://www.boundarycommittee.ie/Subm...%20Wicklow.pdf

    Is it really credible that these people were "randomly selected"?

    There are also other examples but I'm unwilling to post these as there is greater uncertainty due to the names being relatively common and living in large population areas such as Dublin.

    It is incumbent on Chairperson Tom Arnold and others leading the Constitutional Convention to demonstrate absolute transparency about the member selection process lest public confidence in the Convention and their recommendations be undermined.
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    Politics.ie Member Prester Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrocket View Post
    Has the constitutional Convention been stacked with "ordinary citizens", some of whom in reality have political affiliations or could actually be considered politicians themselves having run in local elections?

    The member list of the CC (66 "randomly" selected "ordinary citizens" and 33 politicians) is posted here: https://www.constitution.ie/Documents/ListOfMembers.pdf

    Consider the backgrounds of the following "ordinary citizen" members:

    Lydia Peppard, Meath: A woman of the same name ran for election as a Labour candidate to Trim Town Council. She got 2.65% and was eliminated. ElectionsIreland.org: 2004 Town Council - Trim First Preference Votes

    She is listed as being elected "Equality officer" of the Meath Labour party in a 2002 article. Father and son appointed Labour - Independent.ie

    She and a neighbour also selected were subject of an Irish Independent article in February raising questions about the transparency of the selection process. Concern as couple and set of neighbours are 'randomly selected' for constitutional body - Independent.ie

    Ray Howes, Wicklow: A person of the same name ran for Labour in the Wicklow local elections in 2009. He later joined Sinn Fein. "RECENT LOCAL election candidate for Labour in Wicklow town, Ray Howes, has left the Labour Party to join the ranks of Sinn Féin."
    Howes joins Sinn Fein after leaving Labour - Independent.ie

    Luke Boyle, Kilkenny. A person of the same name is described in a 2005 article as "a former Labour Party councillor on Kilkenny Corporation." Midlands 103 FM Radio - Podcasts Live Radio Podcast Ireland Radio Station Programmes Midlands 103 FM Podcast Audio Playback - Radio Station Ireland

    Richard Codd, Wicklow: A person of the same name is described as "Constituency Chairman" of the "Wicklow Constituency Fine Gael Party" in a January 2013 submission to the local electoral boundary committee. http://www.boundarycommittee.ie/Subm...%20Wicklow.pdf

    Is it really credible that these people were "randomly selected"?

    There are also other examples but I'm unwilling to post these as there is greater uncertainty due to the names being relatively common and living in large population areas such as Dublin.

    It is incumbent on Chairperson Tom Arnold and others leading the Constitutional Convention to demonstrate absolute transparency about the member selection process lest public confidence in the Convention and their recommendations be undermined.
    This just goes to prove that we really cannot trust our political parties to act honourably without constant supervision, whenever they think they can hoodwink the public and stack the deck against us they do.
    I bet they do nothing about this unless there is a massive fuss about it.

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Nice catch Skyrocket. It's worth reading some of the rubbish they're putting up there:

    The Convention is a decision-making forum of 100 people, made up of 66 citizens, randomly selected and broadly representative of Irish society; 33 parliamentarians, nominated by their respective political parties and including an elected representative from each of the political parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly which accepted an invitation from the Government; and myself as it’s an independent Chairman.
    Now: Read this document (Which is helpfully scanned in so you can't copy passages): https://www.constitution.ie/Document...dAttitudes.pdf

    I don't have an issue with the constitutional convention in theory.

    I DO have an issue with selecting random people and not having entry criteria. I wouldn't trust a random person to put my toast under the grill. If you do this, you've got to have some sort of entry test examining their basic knowledge of the constitution and other state bodies.

    I DO have an issue with them trying to convince us that the govt of the day isn't stacking it full of their supporters/failed candidates.

    RE the Peppard thing though, it's perfectly transparent as to how they're meant to be selected, so I can actually see how 2 neighbours would be selected if you don't organise your stratification correctly.
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    Politics.ie Member ger12's Avatar
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    Are these the members of the political parties? Or the ordinary citizens?

    Am smelling a rat. The % reached yesterday for same sex marriage is a bit odd I thought. As a strong supporter of same sex marriage I was delighted initially and I do believe it will pass a referendum, but the high % figure I don't see on the ground.
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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Now we know why the names were kept secret until now. I've always suspected the CC was nothing but a rubber stamp and a sop to the Labour party. I support gay marriage, but I don't like being taken for a fool.
    Fair and Balanced

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    Politics.ie Member tigerben's Avatar
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    That what passes for Random in Ireland. Its lucky politics in Ireland can't get any lower than it is, and then communication is always blamed when in fact it's strokes like this that people hate. Good find and will it be reported on in RTE!

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    Politics.ie Member Al Gebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger12 View Post
    Are these the members of the political parties? Or the ordinary citizens?

    Am smelling a rat. The % reached yesterday for same sex marriage is a bit odd I thought. As a strong supporter of same sex marriage I was delighted initially and I do believe it will pass a referendum, but the high % figure I don't see on the ground.
    While I agree that there is the semblance of what appears to be a stacked deck in the selection of participants I don't think the figures are particularly out of whack with recent opinion polls on the subject.
    73% seems to be the average approval rating in the polls and it was 79% in the CC vote. Higher than the poll but not significantly.

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    Politics.ie Member Dame_Enda's Avatar
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    Sending info to Newstalk now.
    Fair and Balanced

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    Politics.ie Member RobertW's Avatar
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    Good work on behalf of the opening poster.

    If it could be proven that one of the 66 "randomly" selected citizens appears to have not been chosen randomly then this selection process (and hence the convention) is a farce.

    The two neighbours chosen is suspicious with the odds (according to the independent) stacked at 2.5 billion to one.

    How many of the random 66 are from areas that would be classified as socially deprived?

    What are their age groups?

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    According to moaning Mullins on news this morning, they were put under pressure re the ' same sex marriage bill.'.

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