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Thread: Sinn Fein, The Property Tax, and Rates in the 6 Counties

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    Politics.ie Member rockofcashel's Avatar
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    Default Sinn Fein, The Property Tax, and Rates in the 6 Counties

    I think for the bazillionth time today, I've read posters talking about Sinn Féin's "hypocrisy" regarding the support of a "property tax" in the 6 counties.. but opposing a "property tax" down here.

    Every time it's explained that it's not the same thing, it seems to be either completely ignored.. (in most cases).. or completely misunderstood.. (in some cases)...

    Maybe a completely separate thread explaining what each is, might help some people to understand..

    In the 26 counties...

    A property tax is being levied on all properties* depending on a "valuation" of the price of the property.. (*subject to a small number of expemptions)...

    The property tax will be paid to the central exchequer, with 80% of the monies collected being returned to the local authority from where it came to be spent on local services.

    In the 6 counties

    In the 6 counties, you pay "rates".. not a tax..

    Your rate is a combination of a "district rate" and a "regional rate"

    "Your domestic rate bill is calculated by multiplying your rateable capital valuation by the domestic rate for your council area. The domestic rate for your area is made up of the regional rate set by the Northern Ireland Executive and the district rate set by individual councils."

    How rate bills are calculated | nidirect

    In the 6 counties .. for your district rate provides for

    bin collections and recycling
    leisure centres
    parks
    events
    council venues
    street cleaning
    economic indicatives
    building control.

    Income from the regional rate provides for

    education
    health
    personal social services
    housing
    roads
    sewerage
    water.

    Belfast City Council. Rates. What do your rates pay for?

    Amongst other things..

    That is why the "rate" in the 6 counties is so much higher than the property tax in the 26 counties..

    Many of the services covered by the rates in the 6 counties, are paid for separately in the 26 counties.. for example bin collection, provision and upkeep of sporting and leisure facilities, school bus provision, water charges (currently for businesses but for individual households from next year) etc etc

    So why do people consistently claim that SF are supporting and opposing the same thing in the two different places.. when it is clearly not the case ?
    1,197 people agree with me.. how many agree with you ?

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member Ulster-Lad's Avatar
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    Good explanation RoC.
    ‘The Great only appear great because we are on our knees: Let Us Rise!’ “ (James Larkin)

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    Politics.ie Member cillian32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockofcashel View Post

    So why do people consistently claim that SF are supporting and opposing the same thing in the two different places.. when it is clearly not the case ?
    Because it suits their agenda and have no problem lying about, it as they know most people will not check out the information themselfs .....and you can be sure RTE wont tell them!
    IRELAND FIRST

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    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockofcashel View Post

    bin collections and recycling
    Paid for seperately.



    leisure centres
    Not too many of them where I come from.



    parks
    The Council don't have enough outdoor staff in my EA. They have plenty of them, and plenty of parks in the EA where the Manager and Directors of Services live though.



    events
    Volunteers usually. Occasionaly get help from (excellent) library staff.



    council venues
    LOL! What's wanna dem eh?



    street cleaning
    Don't start me off!



    economic indicatives
    Never quite make it to my EA.




    building control.
    Two words: Priory Hall
    "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

    “When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockofcashel View Post
    I think for the bazillionth time today, I've read posters talking about Sinn Féin's "hypocrisy" regarding the support of a "property tax" in the 6 counties.. but opposing a "property tax" down here.

    Every time it's explained that it's not the same thing, it seems to be either completely ignored.. (in most cases).. or completely misunderstood.. (in some cases)...

    Maybe a completely separate thread explaining what each is, might help some people to understand..

    In the 26 counties...

    A property tax is being levied on all properties* depending on a "valuation" of the price of the property.. (*subject to a small number of expemptions)...

    The property tax will be paid to the central exchequer, with 80% of the monies collected being returned to the local authority from where it came to be spent on local services.

    In the 6 counties

    In the 6 counties, you pay "rates".. not a tax..

    Your rate is a combination of a "district rate" and a "regional rate"

    "Your domestic rate bill is calculated by multiplying your rateable capital valuation by the domestic rate for your council area. The domestic rate for your area is made up of the regional rate set by the Northern Ireland Executive and the district rate set by individual councils."

    How rate bills are calculated | nidirect

    In the 6 counties .. for your district rate provides for

    bin collections and recycling
    leisure centres
    parks
    events
    council venues
    street cleaning
    economic indicatives
    building control.

    Income from the regional rate provides for

    education
    health
    personal social services
    housing
    roads
    sewerage
    water.

    Belfast City Council. Rates. What do your rates pay for?

    Amongst other things..

    That is why the "rate" in the 6 counties is so much higher than the property tax in the 26 counties..

    Many of the services covered by the rates in the 6 counties, are paid for separately in the 26 counties.. for example bin collection, provision and upkeep of sporting and leisure facilities, school bus provision, water charges (currently for businesses but for individual households from next year) etc etc

    So why do people consistently claim that SF are supporting and opposing the same thing in the two different places.. when it is clearly not the case ?
    Because the means justify the end - the end being the preservation of the three-ring circus that has run this state so abysmally since it came into being.

    One aspect that is seldom remarked upon is that SF's working-class support in the north seems solid, which would appear to be at odds with attempts down here to argue that they're as bad or worse on austerity in the north as the Dublin govt is down here.

    Good post, btw.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member nonpartyboy's Avatar
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    While not a shinner, this (comparing north and south) is just fg bull, that fools nobody.

    If they want us to believe their lies, then they should reduce paye by the same amount as the property tax, i mean they must think we are simple. we paid for all these services though the paye system, who passed it on to the local authority.

    Now they want us to pay the local authority directly, but they want to keep the general taxation booty........we are not as thick as fg/lab are.

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    Politics.ie Member mido's Avatar
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    Because as you point out yourself 80% of the property tax will go to local government to provide services in addition to the block grant given and local rates from businesses etc. as you can see from the link below this is no different to NI. i am not aware of any park here that charges admission or council that does not do street cleaning, economics intiatives or events. the also do roads etc
    Derry City Council - What are Rates?

    health and education in the south is funded through general taxes as it largely is in NI.

    bins are privately provided fro in the south and the water rates will apply in coming years -even at that, the rate in the North at present would exceed what those costs are.

    and mary lou will/won't/maybe pay her water bill
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    Two words: Priory Hall
    What has Priory Hall got to do with SF?

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member nonpartyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyasking View Post
    What has Priory Hall got to do with SF?
    SPN is so blinded by his "get the public service to pay" mentality that he couldn't even figure out ROC was listing what your property tax gets you in the north...........the point was it gets you nothing in the republic....!

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