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Thread: "SF are in government because we want to be, but unionists are in government because they have to be"

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Default "SF are in government because we want to be, but unionists are in government because they have to be"

    At this year's Sinn Féin Ard Fheis Deputy First Minister Martin McGuiness spoke quite critically of unionist ministers saying:

    "More than once in recent months the observation has been made to me that Sinn Fein ministers are in government with unionist ministers because we want to be, but that unionist ministers are in government with Sinn Fein because they have to be."

    "Speaking frankly this isn't good enough. Fifteen years on we need to apply the very same political skills and political principles to politics in the here and now if we are to truly harness the great potential that still exists.

    "I have no difficulty whatsoever in respecting unionists' allegiance to their Britishness, but it gives me no satisfaction to tell you that there is a marked reluctance by unionist leaders to respect the Irish identity of nationalists and republicans."
    Of course McGuinness is absolutely on the money. At every opportunity unionist parties have tried to hold back the executive and make nuisances of themselves. The Deputy First Minister also had a pop at Tory PM Cameron by saying:

    "It is unfortunate that his semi-detached approach to the peace process and delivering the outstanding commitments from Good Friday, St Andrews and Hillsborough has been in many ways mirrored by the current Irish government also...."
    So this begs the question, WHY are unionists intent on trying to move NI backwards instead of forwards. The UUP and DUP should be working on fixing the north, not trying to score points over SF and nationalists. At a time when NI needs guidance it seems clear unionism, not to mention the London and Dublin governments are more concerned with going after SF at every opportunity. If they keep this up more and more Republicans and Nationalists will likely switch to the dissidents and that would truly bring catastrophe to the north of Ireland.

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    Politics.ie Member Legolas's Avatar
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    Tell me more about how Nationalists are ' trying to move Northern Ireland forward ' and Unionists aren't...

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Next.....

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    Maybe Unionist sense that both London and Dublin have far far bigger issues to deal with and will have for the foreseeable future. Maybe Unionists are trying to collapse Stormont and bring back direct rule. Maybe they wish to do this before Belfast is lost to the nationalists forever and the greening of NI begins in earnest.
    If we got rid of all the papists, there'd be no trouble whatsoever. The place will be nirvana. Schomberg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by runwiththewind View Post
    Maybe Unionist sense that both London and Dublin have far far bigger issues to deal with and will have for the foreseeable future. Maybe Unionists are trying to collapse Stormont and bring back direct rule. Maybe they wish to do this before Belfast is lost to the nationalists forever and the greening of NI begins in earnest.
    On the money, I have no doubt in my mind that Unionists will try and collapse the institutions with a view to either renegotiate or a return to direct rule..they will try in the lifetime of this government as they would see Cameron as acting more favourably and sympathetic towards them....Their problem at the moment is trying to find a reason to collapse without looking like the bad guy. But it will happen....the shinners know this and will set the groundwork for them to be hung by their own petard. McGuinnesses statement today is the beginning of exposing them.

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    Politics.ie Member Ren84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runwiththewind View Post
    Maybe Unionist sense that both London and Dublin have far far bigger issues to deal with and will have for the foreseeable future. Maybe Unionists are trying to collapse Stormont and bring back direct rule. Maybe they wish to do this before Belfast is lost to the nationalists forever and the greening of NI begins in earnest.
    At this stage it would seem unionists are increasingly fed up with devolved government and would rather a return to direct rule. Having SF and the SDLP dictate policy is not something unionists are comfortable with, and it shows. I started another thread asking about increased devolution for NI and most, if not all unionists, were cold on the idea. For them London is their government, and they are perfectly happy for the English to set the agenda. Maybe it's distrust in their own politicians or simply an unwillingness to allow nationalists anywhere near the levers of power but devolved government as it currently exists is increasingly on shaky ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galloper Thompson View Post
    On the money, I have no doubt in my mind that Unionists will try and collapse the institutions with a view to either renegotiate or a return to direct rule..they will try in the lifetime of this government as they would see Cameron as acting more favourably and sympathetic towards them....Their problem at the moment is trying to find a reason to collapse without looking like the bad guy. But it will happen....the shinners know this and will set the groundwork for them to be hung by their own petard. McGuinnesses statement today is the beginning of exposing them.
    If they do collapse Stormont it will be direct rule alright but not what they envisage, it will be direct rule from Westminister and Dublin. I don't believe Cameron will act more favourably. Oh, he speaks publicly as a unionist but he will do nothing to damage the good relationship with Dublin that has taken decades to achieve. Didn't Stormont only get its act together when the threat of direct rule from Dublin and London was looming? Do unionist really thing that by bringing down Stormont that it would result in direct rule from London only? Even if that was the result, do they really think that SF wouldn't take their seats in Westminister?
    If we got rid of all the papists, there'd be no trouble whatsoever. The place will be nirvana. Schomberg.

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    I cant see any scenario where Sinn Fein would take their seats in Westminister...and lets not give the British Government too much credit..they have a habit of making the same mistakes over and over again....also, as much as we'd like to think Unionists are dumb, they are not...when they bring the institutions down, they are not going to do it blindly..They are, I am sure, in consultation with the Cameron Government as we speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren84 View Post
    At this stage it would seem unionists are increasingly fed up with devolved government and would rather a return to direct rule. Having SF and the SDLP dictate policy is not something unionists are comfortable with, and it shows. I started another thread asking about increased devolution for NI and most, if not all unionists, were cold on the idea. For them London is their government, and they are perfectly happy for the English to set the agenda. Maybe it's distrust in their own politicians or simply an unwillingness to allow nationalists anywhere near the levers of power but devolved government as it currently exists is increasingly on shaky ground.
    They are fed up because devolved government because it has reached a tipping point. Consensus government cannot be achieved in NI. Besides what does that even mean? How can two polar opposites in ideology reach consensus in major issues like education and housing? NI's future course is set. It will be a majority nationalist who will chip away at all things British until the place become indistinguishable from the Rep. Yet as long as the money flows from Westminister they will be happy enough with the status quo. A very very powerful position for nationalists to be in. They can be culturally and political Irish with Irish citizenship. If Westminister decides enough is enough, (which they will, for what country needs or wants a region whose allegiance lie with another country), they can shrug their shoulders and say fine, we'll join the Rep. The future of NI is out of unionists hands and the truth of this has finally sunk it, but what is to become of them?
    If we got rid of all the papists, there'd be no trouble whatsoever. The place will be nirvana. Schomberg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galloper Thompson View Post
    I cant see any scenario where Sinn Fein would take their seats in Westminister...and lets not give the British Government too much credit..they have a habit of making the same mistakes over and over again....also, as much as we'd like to think Unionists are dumb, they are not...when they bring the institutions down, they are not going to do it blindly..They are, I am sure, in consultation with the Cameron Government as we speak.
    Things change, SF will take their seats in Westminister should Stormond fall. They will then have a voice in two national parliaments. This doesn't change their constitutional position one jot. Why make the same mistake SF made after the 1918 election? If they had taken their seats then, they could have nullified the unionists and backed Lloyd George in what was a coalition government. No need to make the same mistake twice. Chances are the next government in the UK will also be a coalition government.
    If we got rid of all the papists, there'd be no trouble whatsoever. The place will be nirvana. Schomberg.

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