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Thread: Our economy - right key, wrong keyhole

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    Politics.ie Member Malbekh's Avatar
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    Default Our economy - right key, wrong keyhole



    Good evening. Those of you who know me well, will be aware that I am an occasional poster of worthwhile topics, mostly by good chance of course, with the occasional brain spasm of inappropriate or arrogant thread manufacture. People will also be aware that I am a shameless populist, and one to make grand sweeping statements, backed by little in the way of facts or logic.

    Please allow me to let you in with a secret. Well not so much a secret, more of a grand sweeping statement...



    Here's the thing. There is no difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael. None whatsoever. I will give Fine Gael some slack, in that the Celtic Tiger would have been different under their leadership. But only by about 10%. They too would have allowed the country to become one big property bubble, whilst spending vast amounts on a bloated public sector. They also would have engineered a blanket guarantee, after all, they sure as hell voted for it when in opposition. In fact, FG budgets in opposition are just mini-me versions of the real ones.

    Furthermore, everything that FG has implemented since getting into power, well, FF would have done exactly the same from a drop-down menu of Troika policies. Let's not forget that it was FF's pathetic 'leadership' of numpties that got us into this mess in the first place, but please don't pretend that the FG version have done anything constructive in getting us out of it.



    Here's two damning facts for you....

    FF and their green puppets had a once in a century opportunity to make this country into something really special. I mean, with all the loot available to the country, and with a pacified voting public entranced with their ability to flip houses with each other, they could, and should, have used this financial leverage to implement prudent, wise, innovative and far-reaching policies.

    Oh well.

    FG and their red puppets had a once in a century opportunity to radically change it for the better. After all, that's what people voted for in their droves. Change. Oh yeah, you all voted for the Troika stuff as well, but you kind of hoped that they would use the opportunity provided as the worst financial crisis ever hit the nation, to make the radical and innovative changes required to our political, social, economic and judicial sectors.

    Oh well.




    So. Is this just an exercise of whataboutery? Well no. This country is completely screwed and has no chance of recovery as long as the fools in government continue on with their failed policy. That's right, policy. That policy is to implement the diktats of the Troika and put all their roulette money on red number 32. This Red32 is also known as export growth. Let me tell you another not-so-secret. There is and will be no export growth that is going to a) generate growth in our economy and b) generate jobs.

    So. What does this leave us with? Well, the only option available to us is the old three-card-trick.



    Trick 1. This involves a radical overhaul of the public sector and public spending. Unfortunately, it's probably too late to do anything practical here. Damage has already been done. Instead of focussing on streamlining the public sector by getting rid of the dross, the government just concentrated on getting rid of people. Didn't matter if the people were highly skilled with experience of previous recessions, if they cost too much out they went. There's a simple solution to the public sector, make it a meritocracy, pay them well, and give them bonuses on performance. Sadly, what we have are public sector employees who are too stressed and scared to do their jobs properly. That have seen management teams disappear in their entirety. That are working harder than they ever have, with less hours and a larger workload. And that's just the responsible ones.

    Trick 2. Taxation. You can't tax your way out of a recession and that is true. Because taxation on the working and middle classes only puts them in their spending shells like turtles, and you end up destroying the domestic economy. Oh, and don't think about the fact that people on a higher tax band are wealthy. The top tax band of 52% comes in at 33,000. Compare that with the UK, where the equivalent comes in at 175,000. The middle class are now the working class. As for the super rich, well, those that reside in the country will skip Dodge as soon as any wealth tax is implemented. Furthermore, the amount of revenue generated would be very small indeed. So I'm sorry, the only way that we can generate taxes is to raise either the corporate rate of tax, or stop allowing the likes of tech companies massive tax avoidance advantages. After all, they create feck-all jobs. So either they pay more tax, or they create more jobs. Alas, if you remember the failed policy this government follows from before, you know that this government far prefers to see the country implode rather than tackling big business.

    Trick 3. Eurozone. This government can negotiate whatever loan stretching exercises they want to. It makes a difference on a year2year basis, but the principle still needs to be paid off, as does the interest. We must, and have, to get a deal through the ESM where we can offload the remnants of our banking system and get paid a fair price, both for the banks and for the trauma we've had to go though. This will require balls. Unfortunately, the government are little fairies and there's no chance of them getting tough even though the IMF want them to.



    So there you have it. It's not Einstein is it? this government is as economically and politically incompetent as the last one. Worse, the next government will be as equally incompetent as this one. Where are the heroes, where are the patriots, where are the statesmen? Have they all emigrated I wonder?

    Last edited by Malbekh; 11th April 2013 at 11:37 PM.
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    Politics.ie Member Niall996's Avatar
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    they could, and should, have used this financial leverage to implement prudent, wise, innovative and far-reaching policies
    such as?
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    Politics.ie Member Malbekh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    such as?
    Ooh, I was hoping we could have a discussion about that sometime. I'm sure we can all think of something.

    How about a property tax to cool down a property boom where the money is partitioned specifically to the county councils? Thus reducing their dependency on central government and making councillors relevant and important.


    Yes, indeed, that is what the government is currently doing but with two flaws. First, they are only implementing it because they were told to do so by the Troika, and secondly, they are doing it without taking into account people's ability to pay. Thus they take more money from the domestic economy and continue to drive failed businesses, higher unemployment and more emigration.

    Hence the thread title. Right key, wrong keyhole. See what I did there?
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    We needed powerful arguments made by those in our media and academia to take on the hubris of the Celtic tiger.

    But not enough did that job.

    That does not stop all the bods on this and other fora making an effort to sound sensible

    I am afraid it is 10 years too late.

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    Politics.ie Member drummed's Avatar
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    Correct about the current lots failure to bring radical change, there was a mood for it. Abolish half the councils, merge departments, etc, etc. Chance lost and may never return. The present goverments biggest failure. Once you get into power the civil service take over and seem to just carry on as if nothing happened.
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    Politics.ie Member drummed's Avatar
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    And while i'm here (been stuck here for 18 minutes at this stage) why only FF/FG. I hope your not implying any of the other numpty cults would be any better?
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    Politics.ie Member Malbekh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummed View Post
    And while i'm here (been stuck here for 18 minutes at this stage) why only FF/FG. I hope your not implying any of the other numpty cults would be any better?
    By numpty cults do you mean Labour and The Greens? I'm sorry you got trapped by let's do the Piewarp again, but yeah, it's unlikely any other party would have done better, or worse.
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    Politics.ie Member drummed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    By numpty cults do you mean Labour and The Greens? I'm sorry you got trapped by let's do the Piewarp again, but yeah, it's unlikely any other party would have done better, or worse.
    Still here if you see the exit be sure to mention it. "Do you wish to leave this page?" and "Do you wish to stay on this page?"
    Trick question, no matter which you choose your still here.
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    Politics.ie Member Niall996's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    Ooh, I was hoping we could have a discussion about that sometime. I'm sure we can all think of something.

    How about a property tax to cool down a property boom where the money is partitioned specifically to the county councils? Thus reducing their dependency on central government and making councillors relevant and important.


    Yes, indeed, that is what the government is currently doing but with two flaws. First, they are only implementing it because they were told to do so by the Troika, and secondly, they are doing it without taking into account people's ability to pay. Thus they take more money from the domestic economy and continue to drive failed businesses, higher unemployment and more emigration.

    Hence the thread title. Right key, wrong keyhole. See what I did there?
    So I've worked my ass off, I've paid huge taxes. I've taken a loan out to buy a home that will cost me three times the capital in repayments and impact on every single pay packet I earn for the rest of my life before I can own it so that I have a bit of peace of mind, some sort of retirement to aspire to. A place I can hang photographs on the wall without permission from some landlord. A place I can put up a Christmas tree and give my kids a bit of joy and magic in this world. All I ask is to be able to have a little tiny fragment of this earth to call my own, one particle of this piece of earth I am meant to call my country to live in and die in and you want to charge me an annual tax on this? For what? Services? An Post? Shove it, I use email. Electricity, gas, TV, are all charged individually. And that's your far reaching innovative idea?
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    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Nice OP . Sums things up pretty well. We have a nation of TDs with one eye constantly on reelection. I'm PS and see the waste. It's not intentional or malicious. It just happens. I'm in one of the most streamlined and efficient branches and I see it so I can imagine what goes on elsewhere. In saying that our private sector is not immune to the same thing and despite what some say it happens and it continued to happen with other private workers taking up the slack.
    I think we need a big reset button to be pressed on everything. We all need to bite our lips and Accept some form of cut though. I'd be happy with a 50% cut in pay if someone cut my mortgage down to a manageable level for example. But you will find those who are in the same Job as me objecting to the paycut and someone outside objecting to the mortgage cut. At the end of the day I will fight tooth and nail to maintain my wage as long As my mortgage is the same.
    We are in a death spiral but I will pay my debts before everything else until it affects my family and then I will do my utmost to avoid paying .
    I'm sure this is miltiplied times 1000 across the state.
    Life is hard
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