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Thread: Rogue welfare office Brian King (16 months) v Malaysia disability cheat Pullen (0), defended by S.F.'s R. Mac Aodháin

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    Politics.ie Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Default Rogue welfare office Brian King (16 months) v Malaysia disability cheat Pullen (0), defended by S.F.'s R. Mac Aodháin

    Here is an interesting case into differential sentencing regimes. Brian King a welfare officer from Dún Laoghaire conducted a scam whereby he systematically defrauded the Dept of up to €17,000.

    Welfare office worker jailed for stealing nearly

    A former senior civil servant has been jailed for 16 months for defrauding the taxpayer out of nearly €17,000.
    Brian King (48) was managing the Social Welfare Office in Dún Laoghaire when he purposely overpaid 25 welfare recipients before contacting them and saying the overpayment had been a mistake. He demanded they return the overpaid amount and then stole it for himself.
    The scam occurred over a one-year period and came to light when the Department of Social and Family Affairs received a tip-off in an anonymous letter. King has since been fired.

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    Next up we have Raymond Pullen, 31 of Ringsend (I wonder is he a relative of Donnycarney nuisance neighbours Carol & Laurence Pullen?).

    Ex-addict in

    A man who fraudulently lived off disability benefits for almost two years in Malaysia where he quit drugs, got married and started a family has been given suspended jail terms totalling 12 months.

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    The cases have some similarities:

    • King immediately admitted guilt and despite initial denials, Pullen entered an early guilty plea
    • Both have family difficulties: King's elderly, now deceased mother and Pullen's deceased addict brother
    • Bother were addicts: King, a compulsive gambler and Pullen a heroin addict
    • Similar amounts of money involved
    • Only real victim was the State (some inconvenience caused to King's welfare customers)
    • Both will repay the amounts involved (pension and welfare payments, respectively)


    Nevertheless, Brian King got a 16 month custodial sentence. Why?

    Liberals argue that "prison doesn't work", but this man has been jailed though I am not aware of any crusade to set him free. I guess people instinctively have little sympathy for a welfare officer.

    King was brought in for interview, where he made immediate admissions, saying he had a serious gambling problem. Garda Tracey accepted this and told the court that betting slips were found in his office.
    None of the money has been repaid but there is a procedure in place where the Department can reclaim the money from King’s pension when it matures.
    Defence counsel Sean Guerin BL said his client lived at home with his parents and that his mother was very ill at the time which added to his stress. She has since passed away.
    Garda Tracey agreed with counsel that King was “glad to be caught” and that he is unlikely to reoffend.
    Mr Guerin added the social welfare recipients did not lose any money and that the Department was the only victim.
    People possibly have less sympathy for a heroin addict, however not only has Pullen avoided jail (given a suspended sentence totally 12 months), he is back in Ireland and still receiving welfare benefits. Unbelieveable.

    Sinn Féin's Ruadhán Mac Aodháin (electoral candidate in 2011 election in Dublin South East and presumably, Dublin Bay South) is a defence barrister and defended him.

    When evidence was heard in February, Judge Early was told that the Department of Social Protection is deducting €20 a week from his benefits, and he has repaid €450.

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    I think the fact that he is a heroin addict is quite apart from the fact. There must be consistency in sentencing and it's not right that one individual gets 16 months and another a suspended sentence for substantively similar crimes. The word of the local drug rehabilitation centre helped him get off his deserved custodial sentence, unfortunately there was no similar institution to defend Brian King.

    And Pullen still receives benefits, albeit reduced. At the rate of €20 per week, that amount will be paid off in 16 years. Basically, it is no punishment at all. (I wonder what Brian Kings' pension will be deducted?) Oh and Pullen has brought his family here too, so we have the privilege for looking after them too. Deport them all back to Malaysia.

    I really have to ask in the wisdom of Sinn Féin running a barrister that defends thieve and social criminals like Raymond Pullen. I don't want to bailout bankers and so forth but I like thieving scumbags even less. And Sinn Féin defends them.
    Last edited by stringjack; 11th April 2013 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Here is an interesting case into differential sentencing regimes. Brian King a welfare officer from Dún Laoghaire conducted a scam whereby he systematically defrauded the Dept of up to €17,000.

    Welfare office worker jailed for stealing nearly



    Next up we have Raymond Pullen, 31 of Ringsend (I wonder is he a relative of Donnycarney nuisance neighbours Carol & Laurence Pullen?).

    Ex-addict in



    The cases have some similarities:

    • King immediately admitted guilt and despite initial denials, Pullen entered an early guilty plea
    • Both have family difficulties: King's elderly, now deceased mother and Pullen's deceased addict brother
    • Bother were addicts: King, a compulsive gambler and Pullen a heroin addict
    • Similar amounts of money involved
    • Only real victim was the State (some inconvenience caused to King's welfare customers)
    • Both will repay the amounts involved (pension and welfare payments, respectively)


    Nevertheless, Brian King got a 16 month custodial sentence. Why?

    Liberals argue that "prison doesn't work", but this man has been jailed though I am not aware of any crusade to set him free. I guess people instinctively have little sympathy for a welfare officer.



    People possibly have less sympathy for a heroin addict, however not only has Pullen avoided jail (given a suspended sentence totally 12 months), he is back in Ireland and still receiving welfare benefits. Unbelieveable.

    Sinn Féin's Ruadhán Mac Aodháin (electoral candidate in 2011 election in Dublin South East and presumably, Dublin Bay South) is a defence barrister and defended him.



    I think the fact that he is a heroin addict is quite apart from the fact. There must be consistency in sentencing and it's not right that one individual gets 16 months and another a suspended sentence for substantively similar crimes. The word of the local drug rehabilitation centre helped him get off his deserved custodial sentence, unfortunately there was no similar institution to defend Brian King.

    And Pullen still receives benefits, albeit reduced. At the rate of €20 per week, that amount will be paid off in 16 years. Basically, it is no punishment at all. (I wonder what Brian Kings' pension will be deducted?) Oh and Pullen has brought his family here too, so we have the privilege for looking after them too. Deport them all back to Malaysia.

    I really have to ask in the wisdom of Sinn Féin running a barrister that defends thieve and social criminals like Raymond Pullen. I don't want to bailout bankers and so forth but I like thieving scumbags even less. And Sinn Féin defends them.
    I read the case of that Pullen bloke, in fairness to him, he cost the state no more money than had he remained in Ireland. He looked after himself and became drug free.

    He only claimed a few quid off an EU vassal state, hardly crime of the century.

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    Politics.ie Member Al Gebra's Avatar
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    I don't think either should have been jailed. I think there are more productive ways of punishing people for money related crimes. Jail should be primarily for violent criminals.
    It's a little ironic that a person should be jailed for costing the state money since it costs the state to keep these guys in prison.

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    Politics.ie Member Rural's Avatar
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    Firstly, I will qualify what I am about to type with this - Anyone who is not a danger to society should not get a custodial sentence. there should be more community service sentences.

    Mr. King was employed by the Civil Service as a HEO and was in a position of trust, by his staff, the Department and the clients, he betrayed that trust and using a larger workload as a defense is no defense in the present climate (ask any nurse out there). But I do believe that he should be helped with the gambling problem and help is free if he is sent in the right direction, he has lost his job and is humiliated, sending him to jail is not a solution.

    Mr. Pullen was a complete chancer/addict, but I would also blame the Department on this one. Long ago if someone was claiming Disability, they had to be seen every few months by a Department appointed doctor to see if the disability was still genuine. Also, putting money like this straight into a claimant's account is asking for trouble, sending a cheque to an Irish address would solve that. I also don't think he is a danger to society.
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    Politics.ie Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmaticapproach View Post
    I read the case of that Pullen bloke, in fairness to him, he cost the state no more money than had he remained in Ireland. He looked after himself and became drug free.

    He only claimed a few quid off an EU vassal state, hardly crime of the century.
    Not my responsibility to look after him, that leech is still mooching state resources in benefits that should be taken away from him. We need to lease South Georgia from the Brits and transplant the moochers over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rural View Post
    Firstly, I will qualify what I am about to type with this - Anyone who is not a danger to society should not get a custodial sentence. there should be more community service sentences.

    Mr. King was employed by the Civil Service as a HEO and was in a position of trust, by his staff, the Department and the clients, he betrayed that trust and using a larger workload as a defense is no defense in the present climate (ask any nurse out there). But I do believe that he should be helped with the gambling problem and help is free if he is sent in the right direction, he has lost his job and is humiliated, sending him to jail is not a solution.

    Mr. Pullen was a complete chancer/addict, but I would also blame the Department on this one. Long ago if someone was claiming Disability, they had to be seen every few months by a Department appointed doctor to see if the disability was still genuine. Also, putting money like this straight into a claimant's account is asking for trouble, sending a cheque to an Irish address would solve that. I also don't think he is a danger to society.
    Very true. We still need a mechanism for justice for no-violent/dangerous offenders but prison space should be reserved exclusively for locking up people who represent a real risk to others.

    Tag them, place them under house arrest or in min-security type prisons by all means but lets allocate state money to keeping people safe.

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    Politics.ie Member Rural's Avatar
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    I wonder if some Judges play for the baying mob and others try to be controvertial. No-one was injured or killed in either of these cases and both men were a bit dim, thinking that they were not going to get caught.

    Whoever sent the anonymous letter regarding the Welfare Officer was good, but the person in the Department who ran with it, was great.

    I'd say the Central Bank got many such letters over the past 20 years which were ignored (I worked in a bank 20 years ago, so I know).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I really have to ask in the wisdom of Sinn Féin running a barrister that defends thieve and social criminals like Raymond Pullen. I don't want to bailout bankers and so forth but I like thieving scumbags even less. And Sinn Féin defends them.
    In fairness, and it's not often I defend SF, but his political affiliations have nothing to do with his work and vice versa.

    If Barristers started turning down work on the basis that those pleading to criminal charges are...well, criminals, that kinda would lead to a strange situation. He is entitled to representation, he got it.

    Furthermore, I think the person in the position of responsibility and trust should get a tougher penalty than the person who is opportunist.

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    Politics.ie Member Prester Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Here is an interesting case into differential sentencing regimes. Brian King a welfare officer from Dún Laoghaire conducted a scam whereby he systematically defrauded the Dept of up to €17,000.

    Welfare office worker jailed for stealing nearly



    Next up we have Raymond Pullen, 31 of Ringsend (I wonder is he a relative of Donnycarney nuisance neighbours Carol & Laurence Pullen?).

    Ex-addict in



    The cases have some similarities:

    • King immediately admitted guilt and despite initial denials, Pullen entered an early guilty plea
    • Both have family difficulties: King's elderly, now deceased mother and Pullen's deceased addict brother
    • Bother were addicts: King, a compulsive gambler and Pullen a heroin addict
    • Similar amounts of money involved
    • Only real victim was the State (some inconvenience caused to King's welfare customers)
    • Both will repay the amounts involved (pension and welfare payments, respectively)


    Nevertheless, Brian King got a 16 month custodial sentence. Why?

    Liberals argue that "prison doesn't work", but this man has been jailed though I am not aware of any crusade to set him free. I guess people instinctively have little sympathy for a welfare officer.



    People possibly have less sympathy for a heroin addict, however not only has Pullen avoided jail (given a suspended sentence totally 12 months), he is back in Ireland and still receiving welfare benefits. Unbelieveable.

    Sinn Féin's Ruadhán Mac Aodháin (electoral candidate in 2011 election in Dublin South East and presumably, Dublin Bay South) is a defence barrister and defended him.



    I think the fact that he is a heroin addict is quite apart from the fact. There must be consistency in sentencing and it's not right that one individual gets 16 months and another a suspended sentence for substantively similar crimes. The word of the local drug rehabilitation centre helped him get off his deserved custodial sentence, unfortunately there was no similar institution to defend Brian King.

    And Pullen still receives benefits, albeit reduced. At the rate of €20 per week, that amount will be paid off in 16 years. Basically, it is no punishment at all. (I wonder what Brian Kings' pension will be deducted?) Oh and Pullen has brought his family here too, so we have the privilege for looking after them too. Deport them all back to Malaysia.

    I really have to ask in the wisdom of Sinn Féin running a barrister that defends thieve and social criminals like Raymond Pullen. I don't want to bailout bankers and so forth but I like thieving scumbags even less. And Sinn Féin defends them.
    The social welfare officer was undoubtedly worse.
    He blackmailed people on the dole for money he trapped them into owing and kept the money himself.
    The worst thief is the one who steals off the poor.
    Scum.

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    Politics.ie Member seanmacc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I really have to ask in the wisdom of Sinn Féin running a barrister that defends thieve and social criminals like Raymond Pullen. I don't want to bailout bankers and so forth but I like thieving scumbags even less. And Sinn Féin defends them.
    So is Mr. MacAodhain not supposed to work? Is he not supposed to work to the best of his ability when representing scumbags? Part of being in the legal profession is sometimes taking on unpalatable cases. Lots of election candidates over the years have been solicitors, barristers, social workers, drug outreach workers ect ect. These are jobs where they have to deal with scumbags whether they like it or not. If anything this is a positive reflection on Mr. MacAodhain's professional ability.

    BTW he was the barrister on the Pearse Doherty case against the government.

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