Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 38 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 371

Thread: The reform (slowly) continues: church to lose control of 23 more schools

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    27,582
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default The reform (slowly) continues: church to lose control of 23 more schools

    Quinn will announce Church to lose school control - Independent.ie

    THE Catholic Church is being told to hand over another 23 primary schools in an historic shake-up of the eduction system designed to offer parents more choice.

    Department of Education surveys in 43 towns and suburbs over the past six months found that two-thirds of parents wanted a more diverse range of schools -- meaning a reduction of the church's overwhelming dominance of school patronage.

    The results of the consultation with 10,000 parents on future control of local schools can be revealed today, with Education Minister Ruairi Quinn pointing out that a majority of areas surveyed had shown sufficient parental demand for wider choice of schools.
    The way Quinn is doing this is pretty smart. By doing the ground work and carrying out local surveys with parents in the affected areas, he's removing any argument that he's going against their wishes. Much as many would like, it's simply not logistically possible to turn around 1 day and say "all patronage ends tomorrow", because the administrative/governance work being done by the church will still need to be done, and you need to find people to do it.

    So you get it being done step by step basis, which is slowly getting to where many want us to be.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    10,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    The way Quinn is doing this is pretty smart. By doing the ground work and carrying out local surveys with parents in the affected areas, he's removing any argument that he's going against their wishes. Much as many would like, it's simply not logistically possible to turn around 1 day and say "all patronage ends tomorrow", because the administrative/governance work being done by the church will still need to be done, and you need to find people to do it.

    So you get it being done step by step basis, which is slowly getting to where many want us to be.
    Being so far and long gone from Ireland, how is public opinion going on this? Is the argument in favour of moving away from religiously run schools dead? Is there no plan or momentum towards working out a long term transition? Give them plenty of time and announce that by 2023 the last of the religiously run schools will need to be transitioned to fully secular and just set the plan in train. We've a long hill to climb on integrating immigrants in Ireland. Religious schools make that job even harder.

    Fair play to Ho Chi if he's making progress. Does anyone have any insight into private positions on this held by members of Government?
    "It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them." - Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    737
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I see on the RTE report relating to this that only 8% of parents want the change - it doesn't seem to make sense to change the system for such a small percentage.
    23 new multi-denominational schools recommended - RTÉ News

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member publicrealm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,736
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDay View Post
    I see on the RTE report relating to this that only 8% of parents want the change - it doesn't seem to make sense to change the system for such a small percentage.
    23 new multi-denominational schools recommended - RTÉ News
    I don't have strong views on who should run schools.

    I would be concerned however if change was brought about for ideological reasons that led to a poorer schools service.

    Baby with the bathwater stuff, potentially?
    I have measured out my life with coffee spoons......

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member Kevin Parlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    10,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDay View Post
    I see on the RTE report relating to this that only 8% of parents want the change - it doesn't seem to make sense to change the system for such a small percentage.
    23 new multi-denominational schools recommended - RTÉ News
    Why are we replacing denominational schools with multi-denominational schools? Why not non-denominational schools? Anyone? A golden opportunity missed. Regarding babies and bathwater, going non-denominational shouldn't mean that nuns, brothers who teach should have to stop teaching. They can continue to teach but in a non-denominational setting. Unless of course their motivation was really more about indoctrination and not education. 8% seems surprising, given 20% (am I right) of the country does not hold any belief in the supernatural.
    "It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them." - Thomas Sowell

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Wicklow
    Posts
    16,416
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    i'd say in a few years time there will be larger waiting lists for catholic schools than multi denominational schools, as has been proven in many countries church schools are academically better and have better discipline than secular schools.

  7. #7
    Temporary Ban
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    18,424
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)

    Default

    Out of interest, who owns the school properties of the Catholic schools in the RoI? I'm wondering because in the black North the schools were paid for out of the parishioners pockets (my mother, bless her, still makes a weekly donation towards paying for one school built about 40 years ago).

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    27,582
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Being so far and long gone from Ireland, how is public opinion going on this? Is the argument in favour of moving away from religiously run schools dead? Is there no plan or momentum towards working out a long term transition? Give them plenty of time and announce that by 2023 the last of the religiously run schools will need to be transitioned to fully secular and just set the plan in train. We've a long hill to climb on integrating immigrants in Ireland. Religious schools make that job even harder.

    Fair play to Ho Chi if he's making progress. Does anyone have any insight into private positions on this held by members of Government?
    The problem with setting a 2023 date is the same as budget/climate change targets, the second you set a date outside the current govt's lifespan it becomes aspirational. You'd get this and the next govt saying "It'll happen, it'll be on track" without really having to do anything. The church would get to say "Oh it's all in hand" and then shrug when 2013 comes around.

    This way at least concrete progress is being made.
    I'm living in America, and in America, you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. Now f***ing pay me.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    737
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Why are we replacing denominational schools with multi-denominational schools? Why not non-denominational schools? Anyone? A golden opportunity missed. Regarding babies and bathwater, going non-denominational shouldn't mean that nuns, brothers who teach should have to stop teaching. They can continue to teach but in a non-denominational setting. Unless of course their motivation was really more about indoctrination and not education. 8% seems surprising, given 20% (am I right) of the country does not hold any belief in the supernatural.
    Like publicrealm, I don't hold strong views on this.

    However, I often wondered why the Department of Education does not manage the school system entirely themselves.

    It appears that the Department are cherrypicking a number of schools (on what appears to be a very small percentage of parents requiring such a change) to be transferred to a different patronage.

    Our local school is under the patronage of the catholic church. On the past two years parents have collected in excess of €200,000 for investment in the buildings - to supplement the contribution made by the Department for an extension. If that school's patronage was to be transferred to a different patronage "organisation" should'nt the existing patron be entitled to get that voluntary contribution back from the new patron or from the Department - since parents made the contributions based on the fact that the school was a "catholic school"?

  10. #10
    Temporary Ban
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    18,424
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devoutcapitalist View Post
    i'd say in a few years time there will be larger waiting lists for catholic schools than multi denominational schools, as has been proven in many countries church schools are academically better and have better discipline than secular schools.

    Toronto, Canada, might be a case in point, sort of. The Catholic School Board there has grown year on year, especially since receiving some equity in funding since the 1960s.


    Toronto Catholic District School Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Page 1 of 38 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •