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Thread: The solution to our problems IS a Constitution day.

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
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    Default The solution to our problems IS a Constitution day.

    I And, no, I do not mean the bull************************/nebulous one FG included in their manifesto, well intended as it was. I mean a reality based one that would sort, for once and forever, the varying and glaring anomalies in our system and the ones that cause many so much annoyance. The ones where the Government plead “constitutional difficulties” as an excuse for the same old policies. I should admit, for those who don’t know, that I am a Government supporter, albeit a rather pissed off one.

    1. An amendment that would end, for once and for all, and notwithstanding any other constitutional provision, or contractual arrangement, the practice of future or existing upward only rent reviews.
    2. An amendment that would preclude, during the course of Banks reliance on Government, from any banker receiving, notwithstanding any other constitutional or contractual arrangement, any remuneration in excess of the Government cap. I am not a communist and accept that in times of private bank profitability they should pay their executives anything they so wish, subject to shareholder approval.
    3. A constitutional amendment providing for a civil court of appeal.
    4. A constitutional amendment providing for the remuneration of any former office holder, paid directly from the public purse, not to exceed, no matter whatever provision previously applied, 100k.
    5. A constitutional amendment providing that no serving office holder, or public servant, paid directly from the public purse, during a time of fiscal deficit, should be paid in excess of the Taoiseach. Such salary to be, in any event, no more than 150k.

    This is only the tip of the iceberg and there are a number of issues, financial related, that could also be dealt with. However, these would prove a good start and ensure some measure of trust and credibility in the Government.
    Has anyone any other ideas? Please reserve them to fiscal issues, if you could.

    I should also say that, obviously, this is not a panacea for all our ills, but a bloody good first start, in terms of repairing the disconnect as between the people and the body politic.
    Last edited by corelli; 31st March 2013 at 07:29 PM.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member Mr. Bumble's Avatar
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    But but but we have to pay bankers 500k+ or nobody will take the job.
    Cry your hardest now, it opens the lungs, washes the countenance, exercises the eyes and softens down the temper. So cry away.

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    Politics.ie Member borntorum's Avatar
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    How can you put specific fiscal limits in the Constitution? Are we going to have to have continual referenda to account for inflation?

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    Politics.ie Member LamportsEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bumble View Post
    But but but we have to pay bankers 500k+ or nobody will take the job.
    Mm. And then where would we be only the same place we are now. And that would be teddible, Ted. Simply teddible.

    Good OP and I would add my voice to calls for a constitution day and also abhor this utterly nonsensical farce of a constitutional assembly stacked with one third a set of 'no change' merchants currently planned or underway or whatever.
    Whenever understanding exists, accepting or rejecting is unnecessary. (Fundamentals of a Gnostic Education).

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    I And, no, I do not mean the bull************************/nebulous one FG included in their manifesto, well intended as it was. I mean a reality based one that would sort, for once and forever, the varying and glaring anomalies in our system and the ones that cause many so much annoyance. The ones where the Government plead “constitutional difficulties” as an excuse for the same old policies. I should admit, for those who don’t know, that I am a Government supporter, albeit a rather pissed off one.

    1. An amendment that would end, for once and for all, and notwithstanding any other constitutional provision, or contractual arrangement, the practice of future or existing upward only rent reviews.
    2. An amendment that would preclude, during the course of Banks reliance on Government, from any banker receiving, notwithstanding any other constitutional or contractual arrangement, any remuneration in excess of the Government cap. I am not a communist and accept that in times of private bank profitability they should pay their executives anything they so wish, subject to shareholder approval.
    3. A constitutional amendment providing for a civil court of appeal.
    4. A constitutional amendment providing for the remuneration of any former office holder, paid directly from the public purse, not to exceed, no matter whatever provision previously applied, 100k.
    5. A constitutional amendment providing that no serving office holder, or public servant, paid directly from the public purse, during a time of fiscal deficit, should be paid in excess of the Taoiseach. Such salary to be, in any event, no more than 150k.

    This is only the tip of the iceberg and there are a number of issues, financial related, that could also be dealt with. However, these would prove a good start and ensure some measure of trust and credibility in the Government.
    Has anyone any other ideas? Please reserve them to fiscal issues, if you could.

    I should also say that, obviously, this is not a panacea for all our ills, but a bloody good first start, in terms of repairing the disconnect as between the people and the body politic.
    The fundamental idea may well have merit
    Some of your suggested amendments definitely have merit.
    I would disagree strongly with amendment 5.

    The State must have access to certain individuals who possess readily marketable skills and expertise which command a market value, even in the recession of greater than €150k, I would suggest you look at the people we had to hire in to beef up the Financial Regulator \ Central Bank. Mathew Elderfield comes to mind, they are not career Irish Civil Servants with jobs for life and CS pensions, a one size fits all salary cap would make it impossible to recruit such skills.

    Similarly in Revenue there would be a significant expertise that the market would pay a premium for, take those who broke the "Schroders Ready Made 26" scam for example, if there max salary was capped at €150k or leave for potential full partnership in say PWC, KPMG etc?

    What about consultant Docs? they going to be capped ? how do you prevent a brain drain?

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorum View Post
    How can you put specific fiscal limits in the Constitution? Are we going to have to have continual referenda to account for inflation?
    No, as I said, as long as we run a fiscal deficit the limit applies, and of course, that limit is to be decided. I just put in a reasonable figure. If were are in surplus, that is a matter for Government setting pay limits, as appropriate.

    Some scandanavian countries have a rule that no Government financed agency can pay in excess of the Prime Ministers salary and any overpayment thereto comes off the relevent agencies grant in aid.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

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    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentmajority View Post
    The fundamental idea may well have merit
    Some of your suggested amendments definitely have merit.
    I would disagree strongly with amendment 5.

    The State must have access to certain individuals who possess readily marketable skills and expertise which command a market value, even in the recession of greater than €150k, I would suggest you look at the people we had to hire in to beef up the Financial Regulator \ Central Bank. Mathew Elderfield comes to mind, they are not career Irish Civil Servants with jobs for life and CS pensions, a one size fits all salary cap would make it impossible to recruit such skills.

    Similarly in Revenue there would be a significant expertise that the market would pay a premium for, take those who broke the "Schroders Ready Made 26" scam for example, if there max salary was capped at €150k or leave for potential full partnership in say PWC, KPMG etc?

    What about consultant Docs? they going to be capped ? how do you prevent a brain drain?
    New consultant contracts, without any element of private practice, is presently much less than 150k and they have filled all but 21 of the 160 new places. I am not sure that particular argument has merit.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorum View Post
    How can you put specific fiscal limits in the Constitution? Are we going to have to have continual referenda to account for inflation?
    And we're not gonna be using the Euro for much longer,

    Corelli is trying to patch up a house that's falling apart coz it was built on pyrite foundations,

    There is only one real solution, knock it down and build a new house,

    And make sure that we get rid of the rodent problem while we're at it,

    Gimme a call when you're ready to start work, I'm a surgeon with a sledge,

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Mitsui2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    ..this is not a panacea for all our ills, but a bloody good first start, in terms of repairing the disconnect as between the people and the body politic.
    +100

    I reckon myself that this disconnect, and the - quite understandably - growing mistrust in government per se that's resulting from it, are if anything far more dangerous for the country's future than any merely financial problems. But redressing such examples of blatant financial craziness as you cite would go some way towards easing people's cynicism and (if it's not too extreme a word) rage.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member Analyzer's Avatar
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    We elect politicians to do these things. And they are not doing them.

    In fact they are consistently lying to the people before the get elected, and ignoring the people after they get elected.

    Maybe just an amendment enabling direct recall of failing ministers (Dicey springs immediately to mind) would be the best course of action.
    Coveney's ambition is the be Ireland's next EU Commissar and Ireland will pay a price as he builds his CV to position himself sufficiently loyal to the nEU empire.

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