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Thread: Who counts the trolleys now??

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    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Question Who counts the trolleys now??

    I see that only 8 out of 25 days in March have seen less than 300 patients on trolleys in our hospitals A+E depts, as per the INMO webpage(no counts at the weekends however(??).) Trolley Watch


    However am unable to find the page on the HSE website which counts trolley figures....which used to exist!!
    I am aware that Minister Reilly announced (at a INMO conference )that the figures collected from the INMO were more accurate in relation to trolley figures....but have the HSE given up collecting the figures at all?????

    and then you see this 24-hour ED waits deemed serious incidents - irishhealth.com

    and you wonder what data will they be using??



    (I note from the INMO website that they will start to track over crowded wards on April 8th.....this is where all the trolleys are hidden from the SDU BTW... ........SIGH!!)
    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

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    Politics.ie Member damus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidermom View Post
    I see that only 8 out of 25 days in March have seen less than 300 patients on trolleys in our hospitals A+E depts, as per the INMO webpage(no counts at the weekends however(??).) Trolley Watch


    However am unable to find the page on the HSE website which counts trolley figures....which used to exist!!
    I am aware that Minister Reilly announced (at a INMO conference )that the figures collected from the INMO were more accurate in relation to trolley figures....but have the HSE given up collecting the figures at all?????

    and then you see this 24-hour ED waits deemed serious incidents - irishhealth.com

    and you wonder what data will they be using??

    (I note from the INMO website that they will start to track over crowded wards on April 8th.....this is where all the trolleys are hidden from the SDU BTW... ........SIGH!!)
    Interesting, the DoHC only said that they'd be adopting the methodology that's currently being used by the INMO and that those figures being computed by nurses would be validated by both the CNM and by hospital bed managers. They're obviously agreeing that the INMO figures are "accurate", but why wouldn't they when we all know that INMO official stats don't actually count the numbers who are awaiting admission on trolleys in our overspill wards, or those who are being boarded on trolleys on wards. On March 20th there were 399 patients who were officially on trolleys but that didn't seem to attract much attention from the media. For some very odd reason INMO trolleywatch grinds to a complete and utter halt every w/e and on each bank hol w/e. Does anyone know why?

    When they say that instances where patients are left waiting on trolleys for more than 24 hours should be treated as a "major clinical incident" what exactly do they mean? Do you follow the same procedure as with other clinical incidents? Does it mean that the risk manager must now conduct an investigation in to each and every serious clinical incident? Is the state claims agency notified as is the case with every other serious clinical incident? Questions, questions, questions.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    Interesting, the DoHC only said that they'd be adopting the methodology that's currently being used by the INMO and that those figures being computed by nurses would be validated by both the CNM and by hospital bed managers. They're obviously agreeing that the INMO figures are "accurate", but why wouldn't they when we all know that INMO official stats don't actually count the numbers who are awaiting admission on trolleys in our overspill wards, or those who are being boarded on trolleys on wards. On March 20th there were 399 patients who were officially on trolleys but that didn't seem to attract much attention from the media. For some very odd reason INMO trolleywatch grinds to a complete and utter halt every w/e and on each bank hol w/e. Does anyone know why?

    When they say that instances where patients are left waiting on trolleys for more than 24 hours should be treated as a "major clinical incident" what exactly do they mean? Do you follow the same procedure as with other clinical incidents? Does it mean that the risk manager must now conduct an investigation in to each and every serious clinical incident? Is the state claims agency notified as is the case with every other serious clinical incident? Questions, questions, questions.....


    Last year I was hospitalised 11 times in 12 months, 7 by ambulance, due to heart condition. I spent between 24 and 39 hours on trollies, both in the A&E and in the corridor outside wards. I was shaggin worse coming home that when I went in. I was told that while I was in the corridor outside the ward I was technically on the ward. It is one of the was one of the ways hiding these figures.

    By the way, it took those 11 admittances over these 12 months for the brains called consultants to discover that the medications prescribed for me were not working! Not of course that they gave me the wrong medications!
    Last edited by Tawdy; 26th March 2013 at 01:27 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member damus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawdy View Post
    Last year I was hospitalised 11 times in 12 months, 7 by ambulance, due to heart condition. I spent between 24 and 39 hours on trollies, both in the A&E and in the corridor outside wards. I was shaggin worse coming home that when I went in. I was told that while I was in the corridor outside the ward I was technically on the ward. It is one of the was one of the ways hiding these figures.
    And the INMO is complicit in hiding the true numbers who are being boarded on trolleys. Nurses should be counting each and every person who's awaiting admission regardless of the environment where they're being boarded.

    Hope your ok now...

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    Politics.ie Member Ulster-Lad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    And the INMO is complicit in hiding the true numbers who are being boarded on trolleys. Nurses should be counting each and every person who's awaiting admission regardless of the environment where they're being boarded.

    Hope your ok now...
    Agreed 100% but one has to ask the question, who benefits from the lower numbers if the 'total count' is not being properly reported?
    ‘The Great only appear great because we are on our knees: Let Us Rise!’ “ (James Larkin)

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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    And the INMO is complicit in hiding the true numbers who are being boarded on trolleys. Nurses should be counting each and every person who's awaiting admission regardless of the environment where they're being boarded.

    Hope your ok now...
    Since December 2012 I have not been back except for checkups, medication reduced from 8 pills a day to just 3, an aspirin, lipitor & a water pill. They will never admit how wrong they get it, no matter what.

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    Politics.ie Member greengoose2's Avatar
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    Nobody should be parked on trolleys in corridors. Even one person makes a shocking statistic! HSE, what an organisation! Reilly is not the man to sort out this disgusting mess. He might be better employed paying off his debts and leave that rudderless ship find its own course. Who knows, it would probably be for the best to let it find its own way.

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    Politics.ie Member damus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawdy View Post
    Since December 2012 I have not been back except for checkups, medication reduced from 8 pills a day to just 3, an aspirin, lipitor & a water pill. They will never admit how wrong they get it, no matter what.
    So much for their policy of open disclosure when things go wrong. Good to hear that you're feeling much better .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulster-Lad View Post
    Agreed 100% but one has to ask the question, who benefits from the lower numbers if the 'total count' is not being properly reported?
    It's all about perception, glossy reports and justifying the existence of quango's like the SDU! In 2012 the INMO was accusing hospital managers of doctoring real trolley stat numbers which is kind of ironic when you think about it! You'd really have to wonder what's stopping nurses from compiling those stats and inputting the true figures for the numbers of patients who are on trolleys awaiting admission on to INMO trolley watch ? As for who benefits, reduced stats suggests that the SDU, DoHC and the minister are making inroads and they also make the hospital look good! You'd have to question the longterm inroads made by the equivalent entity up in NI considering they sent 1.200 patients crossborder for treatment last year, with the NHS spending €45m for patients to be treated privately.

    Hospitals 'doctoring real trolley numbers' - Independent.ie

    1,200 Northern patients sent to hospitals here - Herald.ie

    Northern Ireland's £45m bill for NHS patients to be treated privately - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
    Last edited by damus; 26th March 2013 at 03:04 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Only getting back to this now...(apologies)....never been able to find out who feeds the INMO with their figures from any hospital I have ever worked in.....1st(2nd....3rd) secret of fatima I suppose!!.....

    Who will calculate their trolleys parked in every corner of every ward may be easier for me to discover....(one hopes!!)....Me thinks the DOHC will be less willing to have these numbers published????....or maybe not!!

    It would appear that a trolley on a ward is a safer place to be....."allegedly"....


    332 today BTW Trolley Watch
    Last edited by spidermom; 27th March 2013 at 02:56 AM.
    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

    ALBERT EINSTEIN

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    Quote Originally Posted by spidermom View Post
    Only getting back to this now...(apologies)....never been able to find out who feeds the INMO with their figures from any hospital I have ever worked in.....1st(2nd....3rd) secret of fatima I suppose!!.....

    Who will calculate their trolleys parked in every corner of every ward may be easier for me to discover....(one hopes!!)....Me thinks the DOHC will be less willing to have these numbers published????....or maybe not!!

    It would appear that a trolley on a ward is a safer place to be....."allegedly"....


    332 today BTW Trolley Watch
    I have to be honest Spidey and admit that i was on a trolley once and did not even know it! I thought it was a bed, and the angle my trolley was at made it look like I was in a ward....mind you, I was pretty unwell at the time and easily fooled

    But I did not find it to be this awful experience one hears of. It was only when the nurse said "We'll have you admitted onto the ward soon. We're so sorry" or words to that effect, that I fully understood what was happening.

    When I was given a bed I got great treatment. Much better treatment than in a private hospital, which I would rather not name, where I went subsequently with a different ailment, and which, while very, very comfortable, made a bit of a hash of things, including wrong diagnosis....

    I was in Castlebar hospital recently with an elderly relative in A&E and it was total, total chaos....the staff absolutely ran off their feet...awful pressure...

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